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Why should I care about the FLGS?

WizarDru said:
Sorry, showing my age, there. Greg finally got around to changing the name, I guess. Despite the sign, it was "Between the Books", originally and for years, after.


Actually, it was "Book Thrift" when it was at Tri-State mall, but that's neither here nor there. We are talking about the same place, and that's all that matters.

We discussed this thread this evening, as a matter of fact. He does remember the "looking for Mutants & Masterminds" incident, BTW.

If you'd like to chat, feel free to email me at comcast.net (use my screenname).
 

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People keep talking about wanting something *NOW* and not next week or whatever. When ordering off Amazon.com, the amount you save off the cover price is usually at or above the cost of 2nd day air. If 2 days is too much wait for you to get a D&D book, you have other problems than where to buy books.
 

This entire thread is a pretty neat summation of why I'm no longer in the record business. The 'world as I knew it' required all-encompassing knowledge on the part of the staff. And they had it. It was a talent that required some dedication to the business and to the arcana of music. It required a large inventory and a large expenditure of $. Profit was something wished for years on after the initial outlay of cash.

A profit of 30% was, BTW, an ideal set by someone outside business completely. It never actually applied. Every record dude I know paid in sweat/tears etc, and lost everything.

I spent many years building acts, and drumming up business. I promoted acts and styles. I finally gave up on making any money at it. I am in a more lucrative business now, yet profit margins are now measured in percentiles.

The business was profitable until about '95, '96. Guess what happened 'round then.
 

arcady said:
Why should I care about the FLGS? Really, why?

Well, I will start by saying I am an Objectivist… I am all about lese fare capitalism… Capitalism is what has made the US the strongest and most wealthy nation on the planet. I LOVE CAPITALISM.

However, I also love RPG’s. D&D especially.

RPG’s are more then books, pens, papers, and dice… RPG’s are about community and about the LOVE of the story. And you need people for that. If nothing else, the Local Game Store is part of that community. They have soul and usually LOVE the game as much as any one of us. It is that shared love that keeps me going back to my Local Game Store and buying all my books through them. Sure, I can save 10-20% buying online… But honestly, like anything else in a community, it’s the people that make it work… Not the price of the books. Hell, not even the books themselves. I make it a point to buy all my RPG stuff through my Local Game Store for that sole purpose.

Where do you think D&D came from?
 

This is where I don't mind...

Thaniel said:
People keep talking about wanting something *NOW* and not next week or whatever. When ordering off Amazon.com, the amount you save off the cover price is usually at or above the cost of 2nd day air. If 2 days is too much wait for you to get a D&D book, you have other problems than where to buy books.

I don't mind a wait. At all. If I have to wait a week or so to get free shipping and 10-15$ off of something, then I'm all for it. As I stated before, with a one income family on a tight budget and being a RPGer, I get things where I can at the best price. Having to wait for something that will be delivered to my door is not a problem at all.
 

You guys are lucky to even have a FLGS.

My nearest shop, that I know of, is in London (70 miles away), so I don't get to support it very often.
Anyway, their stock is priced up to 20% above Amazon (and they give free 3-day delivery over £25). Sure, you can riffle through the books to see if they are worth buying but the overall costs do not make that a viable option.

If I had an FLGS within 20 miles, that charged 10% or less over Amazon then I would buy all my stuff there.
 
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3catcircus said:
You can then use this to determine how much markup you need to make profit - *and* - also to determine how much profit you want to make. The average retail markup for most industries is 30%. If you are telling me that the average rpg retailer is not doing this, then there will always be a problem with the rpg industry.

Umm, yeah. The average retail markup is 30%. How does that translate to FLGS' marking up their products "3x, 4x, or 5x" their cost? The FLGS is marking up their product by a relatively small percentage, say 30%, such that selling products 1/2 off means they are probably losing money, as has been pointed out in this thread.

I'm not seeing where anything you are saying changes this.
 

3catcircus said:
Is paper really more expensive, given advances in paper-making? Are costs really more expensive? I don't think so. Before - if you wanted to publish a book you either needed your own expensive press or pay someone to do it for you, using an expensive press. Now anyone can publish a book with a small investment in Adobe and/or Quark products.

Yes, paper is more expensive, and it has hit the publishing industry across the board. A huge increase hit the industry in 1994/1995, and a substantial one took place this year.

http://collection.nlc-bnc.ca/100/201/301/statcan/printing_publish_allied/1997/36-251.htm
http://www.printmediamag.com/doc/282205042536516.bsp
http://foliomag.com/production/marketing_roll/

Just so you know, something that cost $12.95 in 1980 would, if it increased at the same rate as inflation in general since then, cost just about $30.00 today. Check the CPI calculator located here: http://www.bls.gov/cpi/. This means that those gaming books you get in full color on glossy paper for $26.95 are actually a better deal than those books you got in 1980 for $12.95.
 

3catcircus said:
Actually - there is nothing wrong with a retailer charging 5x over the price they have paid (see my other post re: retail markup). However, there *is* something wrong with them charging a huge markup instead of a reasonable markup.
I didn't mean to imply that they couldn't, merely that if you went to a store that was charging $100 for the Eberron supplement, the person running that store won't long be in business. You seem to be implying that two things are happening: that someone is reaping huge profits from the consumer by massively marking up material and that there is virtually little to no cost associated with getting an RPG product in your hands beyond the printing cost.

3catcircus said:
Is paper really more expensive, given advances in paper-making? Are costs really more expensive? I don't think so.
Well, are you comparing small-press low-grade operations, turning out 50 to 100 copies against WotC's production run in the 10s of thousands? The cost of paper sky-rocketed in the early 90s, shooting up to over $1000/short ton for pulp. It has leveled off considerably since then, dropping down to anywhere from $450-$600/short ton over the last two years. In comparison with pulp costs of the late 70s, where it was much, much lower. Most of the recent decrease is a direct result of the popularity of the web, and the dramatic decrease in popularity of newspapers.

The pre-press technology puts the tools in the hands of the small shop...but if you're going to do a high-glossy chemically-treated paper print on a book that runs 320+ pages with a hard-back binding with full color throughout...you're still going to a printer, and paying his prices. Not to mention all the other changes in how to publish a book, these days. Quick: count all of the major distributors to comic book stores. Take your time. You'll only need one finger. There's lots of things like this to consider.



3catcircus said:
How are they different? They are both consumer products that are in demand. I didn't ignore the concept of scarcity - rather - I insinuated the concept of false scarcity. For an example - why do most Oriental Adventures Boxed Sets go for a higher price than other FR boxed sets? The reason is because sellers had grossly overstated the rarity of the product. Fact of the matter is that neither cars nor books are scarce.)
Heh. Pop off to the store and get me a copy of "Star Ace". If you can score a few of the modules, that's cool, too. I'll take a copy of any of the Tekumel sourcebooks, while you're at it.

You claimed that a car worth $3K in 1985 shouldn't be worth $13K or what have you, now. Which do you mean: that a car that was new in 1985 shouldn't be worth $13K today (which clearly wouldn't be the case with anything but a rare, classic car) or that a new car of approximately the same class shouldn't cost $13K today because in 1985 it only cost about $3K?

I'm getting the impression that you think that RPG products are marked up as high as cars are, which clearly isn't the case. There is ample testimony on the boards from store owners, publishers and authors to the contrary. Heck, two of them replied to you directly about it.

As for Japan's cars getting more expensive, I think you're dramatically simplfying the equation there. Japan has not only been going through a huge economic downturn for years, but they're going through tons of cultural changes. You'll see the same trend occur for the rest of the 'little dragons' of Asia, eventually. Kia, Hyundai and Daewoo are cheaper, but I don't think you'll find many folks who think that they're comparable in quality. Especially not Consumer Reports. :)
 

Glyfair said:
We discussed this thread this evening, as a matter of fact. He does remember the "looking for Mutants & Masterminds" incident, BTW.
Heh. Not with me, he doesn't. I haven't been down that way in about four months, at least, and I just picked up M&M five weeks ago. Tell him Dru and Karen say 'Hi'. Last two times we stopped by, he was in Vegas and at lunch, I think. :D
 

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