Why should I care about the FLGS?

[JDJarvis]

If your local FLGS isn't friendly I say let them go to to heck in a handbasket but if they are friendly buy something there. My local FLGS is friendly, it's prices are list but they carry a wide range of stuff, including stuff from very small publishers (folks that don't turn up online). The FLGS hosts a lot of games. I had a day off in the middle of the week a little while ago and floated by the FLGS , the doors were open so i walked in, ooops it was three hours before normal weekday opening time (i didn't realize this, i go on the weekends normally) they were stocking and doing inventory, the store owner still welcomed me, was very friendly and let me shop with no problems.

 

[dravot]

I now restrict myself to impulse buys at any gaming shop in the area. Of the three local game shops that remain to me, all of them have messed up an order one way or the other.

Compleat Strategist: Good Selection, poor service. Depending on the day, I may get a knowledgable person...or not. I attempted to special order in some d20 products (such as several BadAxe books). Twice. They screwed up both times, selling my order once, and then failing to order it the second time, and then failing to note when it came in, and selling it again. Impulse buys only, mostly board games or reaper miniatures.

(some stuff snipped)

Going into a store like the Strategist, where the staff may be working, or may be too busy gaming to answer a question or ring up my order, is no longer on my short list of things to do.

I decided a while ago to never give the Strat (King of Prussia/Philadelphia area) my money again if I can help it, even impulse buys.

I have since found Brave New Worlds (which recently moved to Willow Grove, PA from Jenkintown), and they're great. The selection is decent, not the best, but they're always helpful and knowledgeable about their product. I recommend them highly.

 

[Storm Raven]

Bingo. That's my bottomline. I have a very limited gaming budget, so I try to get as much bang for my buck.

That's why I said that you don't seem to account for matters other than raw price. In the long run, its your loss, since your gaming experience will probably (in my opinion) suffer in the long run as a result of your not taking advantage of the various other elements offered by a place like the Game Parlor, but that's your choice.

I guess that's really the core of this debate: are you willing to pay more to support a game store? Since I don't employ the other services that some game stores offer (playing store, networking, etc.), my answer is "no."

I will note that you seem perfectly willing to free ride on the volume of new gamers that a place like the Game Parlor generates just by its very existence. Or do you never play with new people?

 

[Henry]

Regarding the argument that Local Game Stores are what brings gamers together, I'm glad that they still do, in your areas. In mine, and a lot of other people who are posting, they just don't seem to - both stores and their regular customers can be very unfriendly to new gamers. That welcoming attitude is the kind of quality that can make a store successful, and I wish more LGS's engaged in it, rather than the unfriendliness and underhanded practices that I've seen.

On the other hand, I've met more people, played more games, and made more friendships on online forums than I ever have in a game store. I believe that without the LGS's, the network of gamers will not simply wither and die; it will move to where I've been seeing it move for the past 7 years - online.

 

[National Acrobat]

Economic Reality

For me, it is an economic situation. Being in a single income family with 2 school age children (by choice) means that we are on a tight budget here in the household. That doesn't make being a gamer easy, and as we do with all of our purchases, price dictates where we shop. We don't buy crap of worthless or dubious quality, but we do get the lowest price possible and get the quality that we desire. That means for me, I usually get my DnD stuff from Amazon or Ebay. For me, it's simply a case of economics.

 

[3catcircus]

Another factor, in my mind, is the product i'm buying. If i really want a game line to survive, i make sure to always buy it's products at full price--i want the retailers to think of my favorite gameline as "this is a sure seller, and makes money for us" not as "well, it moves once we mark it down to half price and barely cover our shipping costs".

The only problem with this is the fact that almost every single retailer marks their products up 3x, 4x, 5x or more than their wholesale buying price. So - marking something down to half-price *still* makes profit - just not as much profit as at full price.

I guess the one thing i really don't understand is those who consider all the factors that matter to them (not only individual product's price, but the continued financial health of the retailer, publisher, authors, etc.), decide the book is worth it, and look for it cheaper anyway. IOW, if the book is worth $30 to you, and the retail price is $30, then why buy it for $25? Sure, if the book is only worth $25 to you, buy it at that. But if you'd buy it at full retail if there were no other choice, why not buy it at full retail when there is another choice? I don't understand the "buy it as cheaply as possible" mentality.

Not to rain on your parade, but this is the whole basis of capitalism - buy and sell for the best price possible - customers will always want to buy something for less than they consider it to be worth and producers will always want to sell something for more than they know it is worth.. Then again, there are those of us who remember when the AD&D PHB cost $12.95 at a time when it was considerable more expensive to print a book than it is now, even when inflation is factored into that $12.95 price.

RPG books are no different than automobiles - there is absolutely no reason why a Honda CVCC that cost $3000 in 1985 should cost $13,995 today, other than the fact that people have accepted it without enough complaint. Why do RPG books cost $20+? Because people are willing to pay those prices.

 

[thalmin]

The only problem with this is the fact that almost every single retailer marks their products up 3x, 4x, 5x or more than their wholesale buying price. So - marking something down to half-price *still* makes profit - just not as much profit as at full price.

Sorry, but I couldn't let this one stand. In our industry, the retailer buys the games at 30 to 50% off MSRP, depending on manufacturer, size of order, payment terms, and distributor terms. Monster retailers like Amazon or Wal*Mart buy at less than what our distributors can. Marrking things down to 1/2 price means not covering shipping costs at best, selling at less than cost at worst. If something is marked down that much, it means clearance to cut losses.

 

[WizarDru]

The only problem with this is the fact that almost every single retailer marks their products up 3x, 4x, 5x or more than their wholesale buying price. So - marking something down to half-price *still* makes profit - just not as much profit as at full price.

The market doesn't work that way, as I understand it. The distributor gets the item at a significant discount, and then sells it to the retailer at less of a discount, getting his profit from the difference. The retailer, in turn, sells the item at MSRP or possibly at a discount of up to 10%, generally. No one is seeing huge profit margins in that equation. Amazon and Walmart can give big discounts because they buy in huge volumes that no one except a distributor like Diamond can even approach...and even they can get that close.

If you've got a retailer who's charging 5x over the price being charged by the publisher to the distributor, or even the retailer...there's something very wrong there. I know that Wulf Ratbane has posted some details on the economics of RPG books, and no one would be charging even as much as you think they are. Infrastructure to print, store, ship and distribute those books costs money. Do you think that anything over the price the publisher charges is cheating you?

Then again, there are those of us who remember when the AD&D PHB cost $12.95 at a time when it was considerable more expensive to print a book than it is now, even when inflation is factored into that $12.95 price.

Yes, but let's be fair here: paper is much more expensive than it used to be, was b/w throughout, and was the product of a single author who often operated in the danger zone, prior to having a break-out hit on his hands, and who's business dealings certainly had their fair share of difficulties.

RPG books are no different than automobiles - there is absolutely no reason why a Honda CVCC that cost $3000 in 1985 should cost $13,995 today, other than the fact that people have accepted it without enough complaint. Why do RPG books cost $20+? Because people are willing to pay those prices.

Setting aside the fact that RPGs and cars are radically different, I think you're completely ignoring the concept of scarcity. Take a good long look at ebay, and I think you'll find that not everyone agrees with you, on that point.

 

[Arnwyn]

He actually has two locations now, but the main one is no longer convenient for me to get to. I've picked up a couple of magazines at the secondary one, which is still within walking distance of me, so I guess my resolve is weakening a bit boycott-wise.

I recommend going to the downtown location. The lady who works there is pretty nice, and they've been getting my orders in a reasonable amount of time. And you get to avoid The Jerk (though, as a CMA and Business Analyst, I can out-argue him when it comes to customer service and good business practices any time).

Campaign Outfitters is a store that has gone way, way downhill. This once-great gaming store now rarely gets roleplaying products of any kind on time or in reasonable quantities, except for the core WotC books.

Testify, brother. It used to be my exclusive place to buy (and convenient, since it was on the way home from the office). I haven't been to Campaign in almost 2 years, and I haven't looked back.

There is a new player in town, Game Knight..

Hey, where are they?

 

[Piratecat]

RPG books are no different than automobiles - there is absolutely no reason why a Honda CVCC that cost $3000 in 1985 should cost $13,995 today, other than the fact that people have accepted it without enough complaint. Why do RPG books cost $20+? Because people are willing to pay those prices.

This is almost entirely incorrect. Any research on inflation will indicate that there is a variety of reasons for cost increases, and greed from the end manufacturer isn't one of them. The average profit margin for corporations is 5%, much less than people think. Labor costs, raw material costs, costs of living, increases in overhead, distribution chains -- all these things play a part. To suggest that people in the RPG industry are making a substantial profit is laughable. Most of them are losing money.

To give you a feel for it, the indexed rate of inflation since the mid-60's is somewhere close to x6. In other words, something that costs $1000 now cost about $180 in the '60's.