Why so anti-Palladium

Saeviomagy said:
But palladium threatens users of message boards.

Indeed.

Some years ago they had even taken proposals posted by fans on the Palladium boards and published them with no credit, and when called on it by the fans, the thread got deleted (by Maryann) and the user ID of the fan was banned (by Maryann).
 

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Merdusk said:
The Palladium system may have it's flaws and have games that promote munchkining. It's fun, that's what every game is supposed to be. RIFTS is supposed give you mega powerful characters it helps represent the Power of technology and MagiC, esp when combined.

Anyways if you want the ultimate munckining system, your all playing it, it's called 3Ed or 3.5Ed, come on look at all the non-Wizards feats that exist, or non-Wizards prestige classes. Heck even some wizards stuff is horribly unbalanced.

3rd and 3.5 Editions are a munchkiners wet dream! For anyone that plays D&D, you better take a hard look at the version you play. The non-wizards stuff for the most part is geard towards power and munchkin happy people.

BTW i do not hate 3rd or 3.5, just pointing out some serious issues with it, i do hate 75% of the crap that is release for it it, wizards and non wizards stuff.

Aahahahaahaha!
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Man, you're one funny guy.

Personally I've yet to see a character who has the equivalent of an unlimited number of undetectable-until-detonation nuclear bombs (heroes unlimited and it's first expansion). Or a character that is totally immune to everything (heroes unlimited basic). Or characters who have 100x the hitpoints of everyone else (rifts). Or the ability to play a dragon at first level without serious concessions.

Yes you can munchkin D&D. Typically doing so will require a character of around 13th level with an unusual combination of stats and skills and equipment, along with a fair amount of liberal interpretation of the rules. Palladium you don't really have to try, even to do it at first level, and if you do try the game and the world that it's set in are wrecked. Gone.
 


While it's obviously more antecdotal evidence, the local game stores around me carry lots of Paladium books and display them prominently. In some cases, I'd say 1/4 of their content. Perhaps those books don't sell, but they sure occupy a large swathe of shelf space for 'dead' mechandise.

Overall, most of the FLGSes (those that actually circulate their stock rather than letting it sit on the shelves) conform pretty closely to the C&GR numbers.

-shrug-

Never played a Paladium game myself.
 

Crothian said:
Everyone could have a dodge/parry roll and that made it more difficult to be hit. If you aren't actively defending yourself, then you were really easy to be hit.

Yes, I had forgotten about the parry/dodge. Mostly because I prefer magic using types and with so few actions it seemed (IIRC again) like I either had to take the hit OR cast a spell. Maybe it was attempt a parry or make an attack.

Like I said, I really don't remember. But this thread is actually making me itch to pull the old books out of the storage box they're in. Unfortunately it would be quite the task to identify the right box, and with my luck it will be the one on the bottom of a pile of four, in the corner behind two or three other piles of four. (Getting ready for a move and all .... hopefully soon and to a larger space!)
 

Merdusk said:
Anyways if you want the ultimate munckining system, your all playing it, it's called 3Ed or 3.5Ed, come on look at all the non-Wizards feats that exist, or non-Wizards prestige classes. Heck even some wizards stuff is horribly unbalanced.

Um, no.

Compared to palladium, WotC 3e is a paragon of balance virtue.

A level means something in 3e. If you play some powerful race or class in 3e, you pay for it.

Compare palladium, whose XP shift between Vagabond and (frex) T-man or Dragon is a joke when it comes to equalizing PC power.

Only the rarest (and most widely derided) third party releases are as umbalanced as a typical Palladium release.
 


MoogleEmpMog said:
While it's obviously more antecdotal evidence, the local game stores around me carry lots of Paladium books and display them prominently.

My FLGS did too. I don't think they ever sold them. It seems they stopped acquiring more and now they are all on the discount shelf.
 

Psion said:
Um, no.

Compared to palladium, WotC 3e is a paragon of balance virtue.

A level means something in 3e. If you play some powerful race or class in 3e, you pay for it.

Compare palladium, whose XP shift between Vagabond and (frex) T-man or Dragon is a joke when it comes to equalizing PC power.

Only the rarest (and most widely derided) third party releases are as umbalanced as a typical Palladium release.

Balance is all in the eye of the beholder. D&D is balanced based on the combat/power of the characters for the most part. To many gamers, that is no kind of balance. There is a lot of gamers in the world who avoid D&D because of that "balance". Palladium (in theory) is based a on balance of party participation. Sure a Dragon PC is more POWERFUL than a Rogue Scholar, but its the Rogue Scholar who has all the skills and knowledge. They are not balanced by power, but by each characters having its own niche, neither of which is more important than the other. Or at least its not suppoed to be, in a perfect world. That is not much different from the Fighter/Rogue dynamic in D&D really. Are those two classes unbalanced because the fighter is more powerful (combat wise) than the Rogue? *shrug*.
Different gamers assign different priorities to their gaming style. D&D's combat-based balance isn't right for many.
I like super hero gaming more than most other genres and its not unusual to have a superman type mixed with batman types where the POWER level is shifted in the extreme. But the Batman character shines in his own areas. If you have good roleplayers who like the genre you're playing, it hardly matters.

As far as power creep goes, Palladium has its share, no doubt. Though its almost all a problem with Rifts, as opposed to other palladium games. But so does D&D. Always has, always will. It is what sells. In my multi genre/system experienced opinion, Palladium fantasy is a good solid alternative to D&D. A new Palladium fantasy book with new OCCs or RCCs is no different than a new D&D book with with a new hard of overpowered prestige classes. D&D players saying that Palladium is a power creep game are a bunch of pots calling the kettle black.

Does Palladium need a tune up? Yeah, its overdue. Has beens for years now. Every game needs them eventually.
I dont play Palladium any longer due to a handful of reasons.
1. Clunky character creation
2. Clunky skill system. D&D is better, but not by that much, actually.
3. Lack of players. Most people who will play Palladium wants Rifts insanity, not SDC goodness! :)
4. Rifts. Interesting idea, terrible execution. Although the money they made on it it allowed for the Fantasy and Heroes Unlimited lines to gain new life, so palladium fans who don't like Rifts shouldn't complain TOO loudly. ;)
4. Bad company attitude. I was one of the people on the conversion mailing list that was mentioned earlier that they closed down. It didn't matter to Mary Ann that there was at least a couple of members that were looking for a good way to convert material TO the palladium system. Their standard knee-jerk reaction affected a lot of different gamers, including palladium die hards. It mattered little to them. Ego, spiteful natures, and a oblivious attitude is a bad combo for the owners of a game company.
 


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