"Why the Empire Strikes Back Is Overrated"

[Dioltach]

An article on the BBC website.

I don't really agree with its premise. "If The Empire Strikes Back had been a one-off, I could have forgiven it by now. But what about all the many films that have used it as a model – all the films that have tarnished Star Wars by contradicting its mythos and obsessing over its family trees?" Surely that's an issue with the subsequent movies, not Empire?

 

[Zardnaar]

That's my theory. It's hacks who can't innovate. Hire Timothey Zahn for storyboarding.

Still claiming ANH is the best isn't crazy.

 

[Imaculata]

It sounds like whoever wrote that article doesn't really understand Empire, or what it makes it work as a film. And no, saying that the original Star Wars is better is not crazy or controversial. But I respectfully disagree.

Some of his points are even completely wrong. Such as saying the emperor is a jedi. He's not. He's powerful with the dark side of the force, but he is no jedi. He even speaks dismissive in regards to 'jedi's and their weapons' in the third film, to highlight this.

But also his criticism regarding the opening crawl of Empire is silly. As if the new threat diminishes the victory from the first movie. I don't think that is true at all. And surely a new threat must be established? I think Empire does this remarkably well, and does a great job at defying expectations. It takes the material of the first film, which was very light hearted, and adds a more serious narrative with higher stakes.

 

[Dioltach]

Some of his points are even completely wrong. Such as saying the emperor is a jedi. He's not. He's powerful with the dark side of the force, but he is no jedi. He even speaks dismissive in regards to 'jedi's and their weapons' in the third film, to highlight this.

Actually, I get where the author is coming from with this one. In Star Wars, Vader is something of an outsider, an unknown quantity to the Imperial officers, someone who has strange abilities that don't fit their carefully regimented world. They sneer at him and his "antiquated beliefs", but they fear him. Making the Emperor a Force user, and Vader's "master", in Empire and Jedi diminishes Vader. His powers are legitimised, and he becomes little more than an extension of the Emperor.

 

[S'mon]

I do think Star Wars is a better film with a more interesting world and interpersonal dynamics.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I get where the author is coming from, but as sequels go, Empire is a good one. I think the rot in Star Wars starts in Return. The Luke, Vader, Emperor story is pretty good, the Deathstar 2 is meh and the Battle of Endor changes the Imperials from scary bad guys to incompetent idiots.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I do think Star Wars is a better film with a more interesting world and interpersonal dynamics.

It is a more focused film, the world building is more hinted at and the main characters are on screen most of the time.

 

[Umbran]

His powers are legitimised, and he becomes little more than an extension of the Emperor.

Agreed.

Honestly, the whole thing goes in the bin when you realize the eradication of the Jedi happened in living memory - everyone at that table scoffing at Vader's powers was born before Order 66 was given. We have to jump through hoops to rationalize Han Solo's skepticism as well. Bit of a mess, really.

 

[Imaculata]

Order 66 wasn't introduced until the prequels, so for the sake of this movie, I try to ignore it. There is a lot of stuff that the prequels added, that is problematic for the overall plot. It would be unfair to hold this against Empire.

 

[Umbran]

Order 66 wasn't introduced until the prequels, so for the sake of this movie, I try to ignore it. There is a lot of stuff that the prequels added, that is problematic for the overall plot. It would be unfair to hold this against Empire.

The point is that, overall, consistency was not actually a prime concern - good story for the moment was more important than making sure everything across all the movies makes a lot of sense.

If lack of consistency is an issue for you, then this is going to be a point against every movie beyond the first.