Why the hatred towards FRCS?

[Edena_of_Neith]

Nah.

No need to hate the Forgotten Realms.

After what we did to them in the Gnomish IR thread, they are The New and Improved Realms.

 

[Renshai]

My comments....

I usually find that the people who dislike it so much have never so much as given it a chance at the gaming table. They have never, as a DM, sat down and constructed a full campaign using the material that is available to them. The sheer amount of material is not a hindrance, but rather a boon. For a DM that does not have the time to work on his own setting you can’t beat the Realms. Although there are settings out there that are quickly becoming equally as interesting. Scarred Lands and Kalamar to name two.

As far as the so called munchkin/uber/powerful characters, I really don’t get the gripe. Not at all. In fact this is the weakest argument against the setting, in my opinion. We are talking about Dungeons and Dragons here. We are also talking about a world that he seen the rise and fall of countless empires. Empires that attained vaulted heights of magical knowledge. This knowledge made the world a more magical place, thus the proliferation of powerful wizards. It “is” a fantasy world after all. Is it too hard to believe that their would be plethora of powerful beings (good and evil) in that world? I wouldn’t think so. There is also the gripe that they outshine the characters. This really doesn’t make sense at all. Can you expect a world that has had 9th level spells and magical items around for hundreds, if not thousands of years, to not have a glut of powerful individuals?

If you have a problem with these powerful individuals interfering in your campaign plots, that is your problem as a DM. There are plenty of things to keep those people busy and out of your character’s way. I don’t so much as give them a second thought when I’m running a game. In fact I am running Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil right now, set in the Realms. The characters/players have never once thought about going to try and tell Elminster, or any of the other powerful NPCs that people think overshadow and ruin the Realms. They are only an issue if the DM lets them be, or if the player tries to use them. If they do try this there are always clever ways for a DM to nudge them in another direction.

An interesting fact. In over ten years of the running the Realms the only powerful NPC my players have every run into was Storm Silverhand. In that encounter they saved her life rather than the other way around.


Psion Wrote:

D) Despite their claims to the contrary, the PCs are not well poised to play the role of the protagonist in FR. Instead, characters are always trapped in the long shadow of a weakly vieled Mary Sue character. The death of Elminster (or being made into a permanently ineffectual ghost) would do immesurable good for the setting.

This seems more like a theory rather than fact. Have you run a campaign where this was a problem? Or are you making this assumption because you know the Realms has a lot of powerful NPCs, and you “think” that is the way it would be?

I can tell you, its not like that. It only is if you let it be. It takes no work to leave the powerful NPCs out of your character’s spotlight.



Furn_Darkside said:

I dislike the stupidity of FR- so many powerful individuals/organizations in such a relativly small area and they all just check and balance each other?

Its comments like that one that usually get the conversation about the Realms heated up. Stupid, I hardly think so. Have you looked at the size of the Realms? I’d hardly call it small.

That said. There are a lot of people with legitimate gripes about the Forgotten Realms. I’ve seen several posted here already. The setting has gotten old for some people, and that’s understandable. There are days I consider tucking it all away and starting with something new, but I usually find some new place that makes me think: “I bet I could do something really interesting and long term there.” That is why I stay…

Ren

 

[Ravellion]

One thing I will say for FR. If you ever wanted to play a pollitical campaign it would cirtanly shine in that aspect. They bazillion societies, nations, factions and everything else would give a DM lots to work with. I just don't think it's very good as a traditional adventure/dungon hack game.

You know, you'd think so, but it really doesn't work, because of the preconceptions most players will have of those organizations, and them having alliances with aforementioned NPC's (Red Wizards= Szass Tam (or something), Harpers= Elminster etc.)

Rav

 

[Lazybones]

Wow, people have some pretty strong feelings about campaign settings.

I never played the Realms in 2E, although I read a number of the novels. I've avoided most of the books, though, as many of them even manage to look cheap and rushed just sitting on the shelf at the bookstore. I suppose it's that way with any SF/F setting that become popular, as its parent company tries to milk it (e.g. Dragonlance, Star Trek, and any other 'franchise' I can think of). I guess it's even the same with those cookie-cutter romances and mysteries that publishers pound out...

That said, I personally like the 3e Realms. I bought the setting hardcover a few months back, and thought it was really well put together. I'm developing a campaign and writing a story hour in that setting, and I don't find it to be too constraining. I have no plans to integrate any of the "epic" characters except perhaps in cameo roles, and I've had no problems making up details to round out the general entries in the Campaign Setting book. I know that they put out a huge amount of supplemental stuff in the 2e days (and that there are plans for the same for 3e), and that all of the stuff in the novels is "canon", but I prefer to just use the basic outline provided in the setting and add my own details to it. Maybe some of my choices contradict what's in some supplemental or novel somewhere, but heck, I don't care. I intend to do what the setting book itself said to do, which is to take whatever I want of what they provided and make the Realms my own.

Isn't that what every DM does, whether they play a published setting or homebrew?

 

[EricNoah]

I've played and DMed in the Realms since it came out, off and on, and enjoy it immensely. I wouldn't say it's my "favorite" (that goes to Planescape) but it's up there. Yes, it is a bit "too many cooks" in the sense that it is kind of a jumble of stuff. But so what. That just gives me more stuff to pick and choose from. The "established facts" are firm enough to build a foundation on, but not so firm that I can't change them (for instance, I'm about to kill off a god from the pantheon -- it'll be fun!). As for "uber" NPCs -- I've never seen it. Elminster has never been more than a plot device in my games and no one has even heard of Drizzt. True there are three Manshoons running around in my current game but they're very much in the background making it possible for lower level villains to do what they do. And with 3E ... level 20 is coming up awefully fast (in comparison to 2E, which meant anything over 10th level just didn't happen). Gotta have some "uber" enemies.

I think the mentality that bothers me is the idea that one thing has to fail for something else to succeed. And maybe that's how many non-fans see it -- that their favorite will only get its day in the sun if the Realms take a dive. I just don't buy it. I think I should be able to like what I want to like and not have to worry about it, and I certainly won't go around telling people how stupid your favorite campaign setting is.

 

[omedon]

I have never played in the Forgotten Realms setting. However, some of your complaints about it don't seem very valid.

Many people claim that they wouldn't want to run a game where there are many powerful NPC's running around.

This doesn't make sense to me. You are still the DM and as such have control over the world. So why not just run the campaign 100 or even a thousand years after the current timeline? You could have Drizz't or Elminister killed off, sent to another plane, anything. You are still the DM. If your players really want to have their favorite characters in the game you could just have Drizz't son for example show up as an NPC. It would still be exciting and an honour for your players to meet the proginy of such a legendary hero of the realms but he wouldn't need to be near as powerful or even an adventurer at all, maybe he would be the mayor of the ten towns?

The FRCS heroes are legends so why not just make them simply that. They don't have to exist in your campaign. They can merely be the glorified heroes of days past.

100 or 1000 years in the future some of the cities would understandably change hands from good rulers to bad rulers. Some would be destroyed, some new ones would be created.

As I have said, I have never played in the FRCS but I think it would be fun; especially in the post Drizz't era.

Just my two cents

 

[Sulimo]

As for being well written or quality products- I have yet to purchase a 3rd edition FR product, but the 2nd edition ones were poor and the novels worse. Why waste my money on such a setting?FD

Strangely for me whilst current Realms is too magic rich for my liking, and it seems to have totally ineffectual badguys, which is why all my games have taken place pre-TOT, I'm actually a fan of the novels. Well, some of them. I'm a big Elaine Cunningham fan. And I did like quite a bit of the older novels (the Wyvernspur stuff, the original Drizzt trilogy, etc).

 

[Nightfall]

Just to recify slightly my comments...

Rating by MY personal preference as player versus DM.

Player rating for FR= 5 out of 5 DM= 4 out of 5

KoK= 3.5 playerwise DM= 3

Dark Sun= 3.5 player wise DM= 4

Planescape=4 player wise, DM=4

Dragonlance = 3 player wise DM=3

And finally SL= 4 player, DM=4

 

[Chairman_Kaga]

The Realms as they stand are a mish mosh of unrelated nonsense thrown together all hurly-burly with no regard for either common sense or the intelligence of the audience.

That being said. The Realms is all I DM. I just don't use any published material other than my prescious 1st Edition boxed set. I have been running the Realms since it premiered, in that time it has grown and changed according to my needs and my demands, not through the silly and contrived plot devices forced upon the masses by TSR.

In essence it has become a homebrew, because I sincerely doubt that any hardcore FR munchkin would even recognize it.

 

[Ravellion]

I have never played in the Forgotten Realms setting. However, some of your complaints about it don't seem very valid.

Many people claim that they wouldn't want to run a game where there are many powerful NPC's running around.

Somewhat true, but still, the excpectations of the players are set on munc...errr... I mean epic levels

It still doesn't solve the problems of illogical geograhy, power inflating feats and prestige classes, an excessively large pantheon, etc.

Besides, if you move a campaign ahead 1000 years, you are left with using a map and a pantheon. You are not actually playing in the FRCS. At least, that's my view on the matter. If you make such an enormous alteration, you could say that I game in greyhawk if I download a map and use the PHB gods. Not really the intention of the posters here I suppose : I think those who play in the realms, actually play in the realms. I know quite a lot who actually use the NPC's as well. (though not as deus-ex-machina plot devices thank god)

Rav