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Why we need new monsters

Yes, but at the same time if they don't know what the monster is capable of and don't know exactly what it is from your crazy scary description, that can still instill enough fear in them that they aren't sure of what the beastie's abilities are or are not.
You may make the players and their characters cautious by the description, but you won't scare them until they feel like their characters are in actual peril.
How many DM's say, "you see a bugbear!" This is tell the players, it is a bugbear and basicly saying the characters know what a bugbear is.
In my experience, very few, unless the adventurers would reasonably know what a bugbear was, such as previous encounters with bugbears.
Maybe they know, maybe they don't...as far as they could tell it could be a yeti. Both big hairy humanoids, rather ugly, kind of smelly, claw like hands, sharp teeth and look rather mean.
If that was the only description offered, I would say it does neither yetis nor bugbears justice, but as I noted already, while amping up the description may make me wary - and really, what in the game doesn't make adventurers wary? - it doesn't make me think my character is truly in danger in and of itself.
 

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There are several schools of thought, here.

First off, we probably don't need new monsters. Even if you feel you need new ones, generally what you probably mean is 'these monsters no longer have the effect of being strange/scary/intimidating/unknown' to my players. This is a wholly different issue than their being a problem with the monsters themselves. We'll come back to that.

Let's be clear, here. Sometimes, dressing up the description of a monster, especially a common one, can be a pointless exercise. When you've gamed for 30+ years, no amount of obfuscating language is going to make a zombie, an orc, a kuo-toa or even a beholder that impressive or intimidating in its raw form. Even variants will still have an air of 'been there, done that'. New monsters can, in theory, stymie that perception. BUT, if the new monster is just a variation on a theme (how are norkers really different from orcs, really?) then that's a minor hit that fades fast.

That said, the fact is this: context and presentation can be just as important as the monster's appearance or stats. The goblins presented in the first Pathfinder module, for example, were VERY memorable. They were the right blend of insane, comical and dangerous. You were likely to watch them kill themselves as you were to see them murder a dog horribly while you watched. They didn't feel like lower HD orcs or bugbears. They feel unique and when my players encountered them, they remembered them. 4E helps this, to a degree, by removing the predictability from many creatures...that may be a goblin, sure...or it might be a Goblin Decimator, who's stats have no relation to a regular goblin. Of course, this has good and bad points, as it can undermine the players understanding of the world. But that's another discussion entirely, IMHO.

What I can say is that Piratecat introduced a very good idea under 3E that I've used many times since he put us wise to it. That trick is to reskin a common monster, make some minor flavor and cosmetic changes...and the players have NO IDEA what they're dealing with. A simple encounter with what would otherwise be a normal monster ([/i]"Bullette! Execute standard monster tactic B and take him down!"[/i]) becomes a dangerous and unpredictable encounter. ("What is it? It's some form of undead but I've never seen it before and arrows just bounce off of it! Pull Back!")

Consider this example (and again, apologies to Kevin for using his story hour, here): at one point, his players were investigating a graveyard for some reason, hunting for a monster that had been kidnapping folks. Then this happened:

Piratecat said:
Before he can do anything, the hillside under their feet erupts into a shower of dirt and a rising juggernaut of slimy, rotting gray flesh. At first the group thinks it’s an undead purple worm; as both Tao and Velendo disappear into its huge mouth, that’s certainly their first impressions. But as the creature engulfs them, they realize that they’re wrong. Like grasping cilia, the inside of the worm’s mouth is filled with ghoulish arms, clutching and tearing, and dozens of screaming heads that barely poke their way out of the fleshy wall and tongue.

Someone screams.

To the horror of people watching, the outside skin of the worm pulses grotesquely and then turns… shuffling itself around and revealing that each 5 ft. section of the worm’s body is the torso of a ghoul, somehow flesh-merged together. Now the worm looks more like a humongous centipede, only with ghoulish arms clutching anything nearby, instead of a centipede’s legs. The monster throws its blind snout skywards, and hundreds of half-seen gibbering mouths slobber and drool in hunger.

Inside its gullet, Tao manages to lock one hand around the razor sharp bone-like protrusion of the lip; Velendo, who has never been terribly strong, isn’t as lucky. The raising of the snout breaks his grip, and dozens of clawed arms grab him and force him down the long throat, tearing at his flesh as he goes. He feels negative energy coursing through his body, and his screaming muscles lock in place.

Okay, that's serious nightmare fuel, there. And what is it? It's a purple worm with a template on it and an extra grappling ability. As Piratecat posted in his mechanics thread about the story hour:

Piratecat said:
hat's a good rule of thumb, actually; when it isn't immediately identifiable and classifiable, it's a lot creepier. I was at a con this weekend. An otherwise decent DM was describing a haunted, haggard NPC who was slowly dying of bad dreams and con loss. Then a PC made a knowledge: arcane check, and the DM said, "Oh, it's probably a night hag. Here's a picture of one. They live in the ethereal plane, and...." Well, there goes the excitement!

The point here is this: if you want players to feel threatened, excited or intimidated....in other words, thrown out of their element....then you can either throw the expected at them and twist it OR throw something at them that is unexpected, even if it's something they would otherwise be familiar with. A simple coat of paint and some minor changes can completely confound an otherwise jaded party. Change a few keywords for a monster, for example, modify its appearance and an ice elemental becomes a wicker-man, vulnerable to fire but using vines to ensnare an enemy instead of freezing them. The players need to stop, analyze and maybe be more cautious or even fearful than normal.

Just don't OVERUSE that trick or it loses it's power. If the players start to think that you've just re-skinned every monster, it becomes a game of 'what is it really?' and then you've lost them again.
 

You may make the players and their characters cautious by the description, but you won't scare them until they feel like their characters are in actual peril.In my experience, very few, unless the adventurers would reasonably know what a bugbear was, such as previous encounters with bugbears.If that was the only description offered, I would say it does neither yetis nor bugbears justice, but as I noted already, while amping up the description may make me wary - and really, what in the game doesn't make adventurers wary? - it doesn't make me think my character is truly in danger in and of itself.
I guess it comes down to what constitutes scariness in game. Wary isn't scared and we know that, but I guess that a PC can't truly be scared - in character - unless they really do fear for their lives or come up against something they have some type of phobia for. For example my current character is deathly afraid of spiders as part of his schtick, so if he sees one he goes running for dear life. It makes for a bit of comedic relief and realism as there are many people with arachnophobia and even if he is a dwarf I'm giving him this human quality.
 

I don't think we need to new monsters. I find the zombies more interesting than 95%+ of the, in my opinion, lame monsters introduced in the 1e Fiend Folio. The same is true of most of theWOTC 3e monsters and 4e monsters that I did not recognize from the 1st edition MM 1 and 2e or the 2e Monstrous Compendiums 1 and 2 (which is not to imply that some of those earlier edition MMs did not also have some lame monsters).
 

. . . I guess that a PC can't truly be scared - in character - unless they really do fear for their lives or come up against something they have some type of phobia for.
An adventurer can be scared of anything the player chooses to be scary for hher character.

Getting the player to react with genuine trepidation usually takes a significant threat to the character, in my experience, which goes back to my earlier post about level drain and petrification.

One of the adventurers in my Flashing Blades campaign is pretty much unbeatable in a sword fight, but the player's eyes went wide the first time his character was threatend with a pistol, against which he has no more defense than any other character.
 

An adventurer can be scared of anything the player chooses to be scary for hher character.

Getting the player to react with genuine trepidation usually takes a significant threat to the character, in my experience, which goes back to my earlier post about level drain and petrification.

One of the adventurers in my Flashing Blades campaign is pretty much unbeatable in a sword fight, but the player's eyes went wide the first time his character was threatend with a pistol, against which he has no more defense than any other character.
Hah bringing a sword to a gunfight?
 

Hah bringing a sword to a gunfight?
The adventurers turned the tables on a group of bravos ambushing a pair of merchants in a Parisian alley. The leader of the bravos fired off a shot at the adventurers to cover his escape, after most of his gang was killed or captured by the adventurers.

However good a character may be with a sword in Flashing Blades, firearms and polearms tend to be the equalizers - that, and a kick in the junk (what the rules call a "Vicious Kick" :devil:).
 

There's an old saw that the only things old school D&D players fear are petrification and level drain.

The most colorful description in the world won't scare anyone if they don't feel there's a credible threat to their characters.

This.

As far as getting players to run away, all you have to do is put them in a situation where they don't understand what is going on. It's not about color. It's about the players not understanding how their propositions are mechanically effecting the world. Nothing scares a player, at least in the sense that he begins to become concerned for his character, like the feeling that the monsters hit points aren't actually dropping, not knowing what this monster is capable of or even what it is it just did, and not knowing what the monsters weaknesses and vulnerabilities are if it even has any.

But this is not the same as causing the player to feel actually frightened by the game, which may even be impossible with most players and difficult with the rest.

Let's put it this way, I'm hardly the most overexposed person you'll find, but when I saw Silence of the Lambs I thought it was a comedy and I laughed the whole way through it.
 

its not the monsters, its not the kinds of threats, its how believable you make the threats. I actually scared my players once...with music.

The PCs had fought a good battle, but had ultimately been overwhelmed by sheer force of numbers. When they awoke to the smell of BBQ, they were naked on a beach, surrounded by the tiger-men they had been fighting. They were told they had fought so well, they had been brought to the royal hunting preserve so they could have a chance to live, instead of being slaughtered, roasted & eaten.

<point to spitted, rotating cabin boy over large fire>

The rules were:

1) if they made it to the other side of the island, they were free.

2) their gear was scattered all over the island, to give them a chance.

3) they would be given a head start based on how long it took the elites to finish lunch...and then they would hear the hunting drums.

They were then released- still naked- to run through the jungle.*

After they RPed their flight for about half an hour, and having recovered some items, I pressed the "play" button on my CD remote. Kodo's theme to The Hunted played...

My players' voices became strained as they realized what they were hearing. Their volume increased. Some of them got snippy with each other. They were having genuine stress reactions.

I left that song running on a continuous loop as they had a series of encounters with their hunters until they reached a certain clearing within the jungle, in which stood a single dwelling...











* I did not use the John Fogerty song of that name.
 

Music, dim and eerie lighting (candles if you can keep them from getting knocked over), sometimes props can add to the fear factor.

Describing things in great detail at the same time not really revealing the exact nature of a beast in a given encounter - that is only hinted at.

Altering pace: slow and comfortable to let the player's guards down, fast when being chased, or a need to get somewhere fast.

Any encounter given this kind of treatment heightens the fear factor. From an orc and mindless undead to an aberration or fiend. There are lots of tools for creating discomfort.

Except for the props, I use lots of these description tools (some are even mentioned with my products) - Kaidan is a dark fantasy and its designed to creep you out.

If your players aren't willing to get immersive, then it doesn't quite work though. I've had no problems getting the immersion to sink in, however.
 

Into the Woods

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