D&D 5E Why wimpy SLING damage and range?

[Satyrn]

It never was about how long people are wearing, the guy I responded to said that plate armor must be more rare, period. And I challenged that because plate was not really rare at all and more easy to make than chain armor.

Aye. You focused on that bit

But [MENTION=85177]Dr[/MENTION]oppbear8mybaby also mentioned the effects of prolonged use along with it. And when you asked why he thought it was rare his response focused entirely on wearing it for prolonged periods:

From the fact that even at the very height of it's use and distribution, people weren't walking around town in it, doing their daily business. It was an apparatus of war, not a casual town outfit.

And that's the bit I'm saying that the people you're talking to focused on.


Anyway. I have no idea how common this armor - the head to toe armor that D&D calls plate - was, and now you've got me curious. How many soldiers were wearing it on the battlefield during a war when it was used?

 

[Dorian_Grey]

I couldn't find any population/usage numbers, but interestingly enough there is a considerable difference between low/high quality (which was the original point on how plate mail came up). http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.htm

Super high quality pieces, from masters of the art, were rare and expensive. One craftsman got 1200 gold coins for a suit according to the museum I linked above, and that would have been the equivalent of 12 years of wages for a court official. An armory for a knight (all weapons and armor) was calculated as three years of wages for a skilled laborer. In today's terms, that's probably around $200k to $300k. As a result, specialty made pieces were rare. However, second hand and obsolete armor pieces were readily available as "ready to wear" pieces. They weren't crafted for you or to your specification, but they were available.

So both rare (high value) and common (low value).

Interesting Edit: So one of the side notes they include is that a helmet would be about the equivalent of a cow. A cow today can cost anywhere from $900 to $3000 for a low production animal suitable for individual/family use (not a cow for use in an industrial dairy - assuming you're aiming for a dairy animal and not a slaughter animal), which would be about 1% of the total armory cost. Considering that the armory in question was huge that seems about right! Neat!

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Anyway. I have no idea how common this armor - the head to toe armor that D&D calls plate - was, and now you've got me curious. How many soldiers were wearing it on the battlefield during a war when it was used?

Probably quite few. Most soldiers in the period in which metal plates of armour was relatively common would more likely be wearing the equivalent of half-plate.

(A distinction needs to be drawn between "D&D 5e plate" - which denotes a finely crafted, interlocking, full suit. - Probably specially crafted and quite rare. - and "Plate armour" - simply denoting plates of metal armour that could be the components in several different armours in the 5e Armour table.
I think that distinction could be the source of some of the confusion in this discussion.)

Probably a lot depends on exactly where you personally would draw the line between the armours listed on the 5e table in terms of what they could consist of.

 

[Flicker the Flareon]

Make all common slings equal to +3 slings, get +5 DEX, use +3 stones and voila. A decent sling you can hunt with!

 

[Redthistle]

Make all common slings equal to +3 slings, get +5 DEX, use +3 stones and voila. A decent sling you can hunt with!

I detect a note of satire - well played! Also provide a feat: "Goliath Effect", which expands the critical hit range to 18-to-20.

 

[tetrasodium]

As far as I know, the sling has always fallen behind the shortbow in terms of damage (d4 compared to d6), with the possible exception of the 3E era when slings got +Str to damage for free and shortbows could only gain that benefit if you paid hundreds of GP for a mighty composite version. (The balancing factor was that the sling required an action to load, so you couldn't use them for a full-attack.)

That's always been the difference between the sling and everything else, though. Slings and stones are dirt cheap. It's a peasant weapon. Especially in an era when you were expected to have minions, and before rules for weapon proficiencies existed, letting the sling be comparable to a bow would have made it overpowered.

Actually 1d4+1(2-5) has an average of 3.5 while 1d6(1-6) has the same average of 3.5 and its debatable iwhich damage range is better . Not every character has multiple attacks and how it performed different with extra attacks has no relevance to them

 

[Charlaquin]

PSA: This is a necro thread

 

[Greg K]

Since the thread has been necro'd, with regard to the sling, what are peoples' thoughts on Graham Robert Scott's house rules and Slinger Feat in his web article, A Defense of the Humble Sling, at ludus ludorum:

 

[Zardnaar]

I couldn't find any population/usage numbers, but interestingly enough there is a considerable difference between low/high quality (which was the original point on how plate mail came up). http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.htm

Super high quality pieces, from masters of the art, were rare and expensive. One craftsman got 1200 gold coins for a suit according to the museum I linked above, and that would have been the equivalent of 12 years of wages for a court official. An armory for a knight (all weapons and armor) was calculated as three years of wages for a skilled laborer. In today's terms, that's probably around $200k to $300k. As a result, specialty made pieces were rare. However, second hand and obsolete armor pieces were readily available as "ready to wear" pieces. They weren't crafted for you or to your specification, but they were available.

So both rare (high value) and common (low value).

Interesting Edit: So one of the side notes they include is that a helmet would be about the equivalent of a cow. A cow today can cost anywhere from $900 to $3000 for a low production animal suitable for individual/family use (not a cow for use in an industrial dairy - assuming you're aiming for a dairy animal and not a slaughter animal), which would be about 1% of the total armory cost. Considering that the armory in question was huge that seems about right! Neat!

That was the really fancy stuff with all the bells and whistles, engraving etc.

Such suits got kept a lot and have survived.

Plate armor was mass produced and mercenaries could afford it.

That used water powered bellows etc and they could stock up a cities armory.

Sling stones would be useless against brigantine armor though and that was a lot more common, cheap and very effective for the price.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I don't think the problem is with sling damage as much as it is with pistol crossbows. Historic examples exist, but they were target weapons. They shouldn't be more deadly than a slingshot, let alone more than a sling or equivalent to a bow.