TSR Why would anyone want to play 1e?

I've heard a lot of people mention darts for low level magic users, but in my area ... no one (and I mean no one) ever used darts until at least level seven!
Same here.

The only PC I've ever seen use darts was (and still is) a Fighter, who specialized in them and then eventually got herself a Girdle of Giant Strength. Gatling gun for the win.
Everyone I knew either picked daggers (so they could have ranged/melee choices) or staffs (because that's iconic).
And at 7th level they take the other one.
 

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2e specialization actually made picking up random new magic weapons more feasible for fighters than 1e did.

In 2e you could specialize in more than one weapon, new weapons just had to be mastered after first level. So while an Unearthed Arcana fighter was double specialized in their one weapon and stuck with that for their career as their one better skill thing, a 2e one could decide this new magic trident they found was something they were going to develop their skill in as they leveled up.
 

2e specialization actually made picking up random new magic weapons more feasible for fighters than 1e did.

In 2e you could specialize in more than one weapon, new weapons just had to be mastered after first level. So while an Unearthed Arcana fighter was double specialized in their one weapon and stuck with that for their career as their one better skill thing, a 2e one could decide this new magic trident they found was something they were going to develop their skill in as they leveled up.
This may have changed at some point, Lord knows, after awhile they gave out Weapon Specialization like candy (there's an Al Qadim Kit that gives it to Thieves ffs), but that's not how it started in the PHB:

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Like, obviously the "Fighter (only)" limitation got axed with the Complete Fighter's Handbook letting you play Myrmidon Rangers, and it was downhill from there, but I thought only the Samurai Kit and the Dark Sun Gladiator had the power to multi-specialize.
 

This may have changed at some point, Lord knows, after awhile they gave out Weapon Specialization like candy (there's an Al Qadim Kit that gives it to Thieves ffs), but that's not how it started in the PHB:

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Like, obviously the "Fighter (only)" limitation got axed with the Complete Fighter's Handbook letting you play Myrmidon Rangers, and it was downhill from there, but I thought only the Samurai Kit and the Dark Sun Gladiator had the power to multi-specialize.
The two revisions in weapon specialization are in PHBR1 The Complete Fighter's Handbook page 58:

"Only single-class warriors (fighters, paladins, and rangers) can take weapon specialties. Such a character can only take one when he is first created, but may specialize in more weapons as he gains new slots."

On page 35 under swashbuckler kit it mentions multiple weapon specializations as a requirement of the kit:

"Weapon Proficiencies: The Swashbuckler receives two extra weapon proficiency slots which must be devoted to weapon proficiency with one of the following weapons: stiletto*, main-gauche*, rapier*,and sabre*. (The " * " symbol denotes new weapons to be found in the Equipment chapter.) Throughout his career, he must devote half of his weapon proficiency slots to those four weapons. Once he has achieved specialization in all four of those weapons, he may freely choose where the rest of his weapon proficiency slots go."
 

The two revisions in weapon specialization are in PHBR1 The Complete Fighter's Handbook page 58:

"Only single-class warriors (fighters, paladins, and rangers) can take weapon specialties. Such a character can only take one when he is first created, but may specialize in more weapons as he gains new slots."

On page 35 under swashbuckler kit it mentions multiple weapon specializations as a requirement of the kit:

"Weapon Proficiencies: The Swashbuckler receives two extra weapon proficiency slots which must be devoted to weapon proficiency with one of the following weapons: stiletto*, main-gauche*, rapier*,and sabre*. (The " * " symbol denotes new weapons to be found in the Equipment chapter.) Throughout his career, he must devote half of his weapon proficiency slots to those four weapons. Once he has achieved specialization in all four of those weapons, he may freely choose where the rest of his weapon proficiency slots go."
Wow, how did I never notice that? That's wild, especially when the Dark Sun Gladiator grants the ability to specialize in multiple weapons as a class feature. And they just handed weapon specialization to Rangers and Paladins, too? All this time, I thought only certain Kits would let me do that...

However, it seems there was some contention about this in-house at TSR, which is why later books don't support this. In fact, in Sage Advice, they had this to say:

"Q. The Player’s Handbook, on pages 26 and 52, makes it clear that only single-classed fighters, not paladins and rangers, can use weapon specialization. However, the Complete Fighter’s Handbook, on page 58, pretty clearly implies that all warriors (fighters, paladins, and rangers) can specialize. Did the rules change when the Complete Fighter’s Handbook hit the shelves? If so, why would anyone want to play a simple fighter?

A. According to a short conversation I had with TSR, Inc.’s Dave "Zeb" Cook a while ago, the rules in the Player’s Handbook and Dungeon Master’s Guide are intended to serve as the fundamental basis for the AD&D® 2nd Edition game and are supposed to remain unchanged until that far off day when a new version of the game comes along (there are no plans for another edition currently in the works, but no set of game rules stays current forever). While there is a continuous stream of new material planned for the game, all of it is intended to supplement the core rules, not replace them. All of the rules in the Complete Fighter’s Handbook are optional, but the phrase giving weapon specialization to all warriors is an error."

However, then we have:

"Q. With how many weapons can a fighter specialize? Is it possible to specialize in both a fighting style (from the Complete Fighter’s Handbook) and a weapon or combination of weapons? How do you use weapon specialization if you also are using weapon groups from the Complete Fighter’s Handbook? Is it possible to double specialize? If so, how do you get it and what bonuses do you get for it?

A. In the core rules, a single-classed Fighter, and only a fighter, can specialize in exactly one particular weapon. If you’re using weapon groups, the fighter must pick one weapon within the group as a specialty. If you’re using the rules in the Complete Fighters Handbook, you can allow fighters to take more than one weapon specialization, but they still must choose their specializations one weapon at a time.

Style specialization is actually just a weapon proficiency available to warriors, rogues, and priests. Don’t let the name confuse you; a style specialization is a general set of tricks for fighting a certain way, not an intensive study of one particular weapon. It is possible for a character to have more than one style specialization.

There are no rules for double specializations in the current version of the AD&D game. However, if you play a variant game and allow all warriors (including rangers and paladins) to take weapon specialization, you might allow fighters only to spend two extra proficiency slots on one weapon (and one weapon only) and become double specialized. The effect of a double specialization is up to the DM, but increasing the specialization bonus to +2 ’to hit’ and +3 damage seems most reasonable. If you use this unofficial optional rule, be prepared to start adjusting your campaign’s play balance, because your poor monsters are going to have a hard time going toe-to-toe with your campaign’s fighters."

Clear as mud, lol. Apparently since all the Complete Books are "optional", you can use them and allow multiple specializations to Fighters if you want to, but that's not ever going to be in the PHB...???

(And supposedly they cleared this up in the 9th printing of the CFH, though I have no way to confirm that).
 


I am enjoying the way the words "character build" summoned a discussion of character building. It's not my thing, but I appreciate that it both is other people's thing and is great. Stay Gold!

But to Flying Toaster's comment...
4E is treated as unacceptable “not-my-D&D” by two completely different opposing camps:

(1) 3E folk who really liked the character builds and heavy rules crunch of the 3.X/PF1 family of games and consequently never stopped playing their perfect system, rejecting 4E (and sometimes PF2E) for being too much like Warcraft, Everquest, and MMORPGs or CRPGs generally

(2) OSR folk who rejected both 3E and 4E for their crunch and general power creep, preferring the simpler rules and deadly grit of early editions like OD&D, B/X, or AD&D (although both 1E RAW and 2E with kits each start to get pretty crunchy again, in their own separate ways...)

The 3E and OSR camps each rejected 4E while still not being able to play the same games at the same tables, because they rejected 4E for completely different reasons, arriving at the same destination by completely different routes from different initial assumptions. [...] Or to put it another way, the OSR developed as a reaction against all versions of “Coastal Wizards” D&D, starting with 3E, so 3E players and OSR players can happily bash WotC/Hasbro together for a while, until eventually the OSR people say something that makes the 3E people stop short and say “Hey, wait a minute...”
I don't really see a contradiction here - I think the "OSR" as it existed in the aughts (2006-2012) was not especially opposed to 3E ... it was the increased complexity of 3.5E that was too much. I also don't think the OSR ever got monolithic in its views, certianly not in its early phase when it was a smaller group of focused RPG nerds talking on forums and blogs. As it breaks into the mainstream in maybe 2016-17 it starts to have strong views about its identity, but only now - when feuding parts of the Post-OSR are preforming a nostalgic reinvention of the OSR do these sorts of edition wars really heat up. Even in the mid-2010's, the most snarky and angry OSR types attacking "Storygames" were still talking design with people using story game techniques. Plus OSR support of 5E was significant - at least until maybe 2020 when 5E products were moving towards non-OSR design philosophies and the sort of "OC" style of 5E play started coming to dominate through streamed play etc.

It's all a fascinating thing, and now in this post-OSR era I think that there's plenty of room for O5R, Grognard OD&D/AD&D POSR (these are not the same groups btw) and NSR/ultra lights - all in the massive shadow of BG3 inflected 5E culture.
 

1. Obviously, different tables played differently. There were all sorts of house rules. But Method V was the first printed rule in D&D in an official book that specified that you choose you class first, then you rolled your abilities for that class. Even if your table didn't use it (or even know of it), this was the introduction of the idea that you choose your class first. Even with other concepts (including 4d6k1, arrange) you couldn't choose a class first, because you might not hit the required minimums, or what you rolled even when you arranged it, might not fit certain classes.
Certainly Your Table May Vary territory. At the tables I sat at, demi-humans were never allowed to use this both by virtue of the RAW and by the clear intent being that this was to make humans better and help ensure they qualified for the badass subclasses, since demi-humans had all their Kewl Powers and wealth of multiclass options.

2. A lot of tables didn't incorporate the AD&D weapon proficiency system (they were coming from 0E). But for those who did, here is a brief refresher-
If you were a fighter, you started with 4. You gained one every three levels. The wording of the rule is unclear, but it was common for many people I played with to choose two or three weapons at the beginning and leave the remaining slots open (in case they found a magic weapon of another type). Otherwise, they'd have to wait for fourth level to use it. Why does this matter? Yes, by the tables long swords were more common. But they weren't ALL OF THEM. There were some countervailing issues-
Totally makes sense as an adaptation and house rule. I just only ever saw the weapon profs played RAW. You had to select them when you got them. 🤷‍♂️

My experience was with Sacrosanct on the darts thing. Darts made the M-U more viable as missile support (especially if you had a good Dex), and most players* would figure if you were in melee you were screwed anyway and a dagger or staff wasn't going to help. Just pray for the enemy to miss you and wait for rescue.

*Not ALL; some would still go with dagger for the flexibility and the eventual chance to be handed down a magic one once all the melee characters already had at least one magic weapon.
 

This may have changed at some point, Lord knows, after awhile they gave out Weapon Specialization like candy (there's an Al Qadim Kit that gives it to Thieves ffs), but that's not how it started in the PHB:

Like, obviously the "Fighter (only)" limitation got axed with the Complete Fighter's Handbook letting you play Myrmidon Rangers, and it was downhill from there, but I thought only the Samurai Kit and the Dark Sun Gladiator had the power to multi-specialize.

In my homebrew, only pure fighters and the Spirit Warrior (samurai) subclass can specialize.
 

I follow the baldurs gate/icewind dale games and allow all warriors to specialise in multiple weapon groups. Mastery or better is typically a fighter only ability (but kits might allow others better capability)
 

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