TSR Why would anyone want to play 1e?

[Voadam]

With eleven classes in the PH and multiple races with various multiclass and level limits to pick from I felt 1e pre-UA had a bunch of impactful character build choices as it was even with random stat rolling and magic items and even just roleplaying and tactics being such big factors. Particularly with weird mechanical balance for being weak at low levels versus high levels or different xp charts for various races and classes.

If you were playing a one shot versus a long campaign, whether it was low level or high level, those build choices mattered.

I played in a level one 1e one shot pre UA and rolled up a magic user with nine intelligence as my first ever magic user.

I wasn't going to get spells above fourth caster level or have a good shot at learning new acquired ones during downtime, but that did not matter, it was a level one one-shot game.

A magic user regardless of int stats is a pretty poor mechanical choice at first level with their no armor, d4 HD, dagger weapon limitation, and one spell and the mechanical design balance of weak at low levels, powerful at high levels. My random offensive known spell I rolled was light. On the other hand, my THAC0 was about the same as a 15 str fighter.

So I tied off a headband, described my dagger as a giant Rambo knife and got through the game mostly on confidence and a lot of luck. I don't think I even cast the light spell.

 

[Voadam]

Even weirder ... the only magical trident on the actual miscellaneous magic weapon table was the (in)famous convertible Trident/Military Fork +3!

That's right, it was both a dessert topping and a floor wax trident and a military fork, convertible at will! Which at my table led to the endless debate-
Wait, do I need to be proficient in both tridents and military forks?

.....GYGAX!!!!!!

They are two different weapons so to use both types yes, two different proficiencies. Just like dagger and knife once you get the expanded list in UA.

However if you only had one proficiency that was the main use of this weapon's magical properties! Whichever one you are proficient/specialized in you switch it to that and leave it that way so as to avoid the non-proficiency penalty in your +3 weapon.

Just a little more obscure options than the rod of lordly might's sword, mace, axe spear choices (sword and mace types unspecified).

 

[Sacrosanct]

A magic user regardless of int stats is a pretty poor mechanical choice at first level with their no armor, d4 HD, dagger weapon limitation, and one spell and the mechanical design balance of weak at low levels, powerful at high levels. My random offensive known spell I rolled was light. On the other hand, my THAC0 was about the same as a 15 str fighter.

I think low level MUs are underrated, and you kinda hint at why. They did have the same THAC0 as a fighter at level 1 and 2. And they could use a staff or dart as weapons. So even with 1d4 HP and no armor, if you're in the rear you're still contributing nearly as much as everyone else in combat even after you cast your spell. As kids, we got caught up in the damage spells--MM, Fireball, etc, but quickly learned that other spells were much better. Charm Person is extremely powerful. You basically have a free henchmen to take the hits and deal damage for you. Sleep is also an encounter ending spell. All this available at level 1.

 

[Voadam]

I think low level MUs are underrated, and you kinda hint at why. They did have the same THAC0 as a fighter at level 1 and 2. And they could use a staff or dart as weapons. So even with 1d4 HP and no armor, if you're in the rear you're still contributing nearly as much as everyone else in combat even after you cast your spell. As kids, we got caught up in the damage spells--MM, Fireball, etc, but quickly learned that other spells were much better. Charm Person is extremely powerful. You basically have a free henchmen to take the hits and deal damage for you. Sleep is also an encounter ending spell. All this available at level 1.

Potentially available, you could have friends as your random 1st level offensive spell instead.

Thieves and MUs are actually one behind the fighters and clerics at level 1 in 1e, Fighters and clerics need a 19 to hit AC1 while thieves and MUs still need a 20.

In Moldvay Basic everybody is the same for attacks at each level.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I think low level MUs are underrated, and you kinda hint at why. They did have the same THAC0 as a fighter at level 1 and 2. And they could use a staff or dart as weapons.

I've heard a lot of people mention darts for low level magic users, but in my area ... no one (and I mean no one) ever used darts until at least level seven!

Here's the thing. In AD&D, MUs had three choices- daggers, darts, and staffs.

They had one proficiency, and a -5 if they weren't proficient, and didn't gain another proficiency until level 7. That meant that you pretty much had only one weapon until level 7.

Here's the issue-
Staff- Melee, relatively common to find a magic weapon.
Dagger- Melee or missile, relatively common to find a magic weapon.
Dart- Missile only, no magic darts existed.*

*In the DMG; I can't recall them in any modules, but maybe there was an example?

So if you picked darts, that meant that not only did you know that you weren't getting a magic weapon (likely ever), but you only had a missile weapon. Which was a BIG DEAL. Because in AD&D, you can't use missile weapons in melee combat. So if your low level magic user ever got into a situation where something got into melee combat with 'em, then he couldn't attack him with a weapon (because darts are missile weapons only) or really cast spells (because spellcasting when you're getting thumped on in AD&D is ... difficult).

Everyone I knew either picked daggers (so they could have ranged/melee choices) or staffs (because that's iconic).

Also, darts? Those are really uncool. I know, Roman war darts. But seriously ....

 

[Voadam]

1e darts are clearly for double specialized fighter NPCs.

Four attacks a round at +3/+3 damage. And as hurled weapons you could get weighted ones for strength bonus.

And it is designed for NPCs because PC fighters need a magic weapon ASAP for all the monsters that require magic to hit.

I only did that once to my party.

Although UA also added new magic darts to the charts, in both the miscellaneous magic items and the magic weapon tables.

1985 "Darts, the new tridents!"

 

[Lanefan]

It was a natural evolution of what was going on by late 2e. You had a wide variety of race options, classes, kits, alternate uses for proficiencies, a ton of NWP's, a massive library of spells, psionic wild talents, lots of crazy good weapons (not that anything was better than TWF, really, beyond ancient celtic spear throwing)- and that's not even getting into the Player's Option stuff.

Late 2e, it's worth noting, was already sailing under the WotC banner. I don't remember (as I'd stopped paying attention to 2e by then) how much of that stuff came out before the WotC takeover and how much was after.

Another thing to consider was that by the time TSR packed it in the whole game was pretty much on life support, and lots of stuff was being desperately thrown at walls that weren't sticky enough. Moar Kewl Powerz was an obvious, if IMO erroneous, direction to go here.

 

[Lanefan]

So I would say that, to a very limited extent, character builds and character optimization has always been present in D&D since the beginning. Back in 0E, I can remember one person who read the supplement Gods, Demogods & Heroes and invariably had his characters worship Uller because it granted a 2" bonus to movement.

That said, I think that that the prevalence of random rolling for stats (usually in order) prevented the idea of "character builds" being, well, a thing. Also the fact that magic items were so important to your abilities, and they were pretty random. Between these two factors, character builds ... it was a different world. Other than creating higher-level characters for one-shots (for example), it never occurred to me to "build a character," because I always would discover the character through serendipity and discovery through play- first the rolls that would reveal what strengths and weaknesses that PC had (and help guide me to a class), and then the magic items would further move me in certain directions.

And that's just how I prefer it.

I'd argue that the first sea-change wasn't 2e (although I agree that by late 2e, it was definitely "a thing"). Instead, the major mental shift I saw occurred with the most accursed of books, the original hardcover Unearthed Arcana (1e, 1985). Why? Because I saw it happen. Well, until all the pages fell out after two months...

I must be lucky, then, as my copy is still nicely in one piece after 40 years and a fair bit of use.

Ahem. Anyway, I'd argue that there were three major changes that happened, listed in order of importance:

1. Method V to create the PC. This was the infamous introduction of "Choose your class, roll up to 9d6, automatically get the minimum score" generation. In other words, AFAIK, this was the first official way in D&D to choose a class, then get your ability scores. Did Gygax restrict it to humans? OF COURSE HE DID! Did people read that, and ignore it? YEP.

Method V was a dumb idea, and pretty much ignored on sight round here (as were various other things in UA - you really needed to go through the book with a fine-tooth comb to sort the wheat from the chaff).

2. Weapon Specialization. Before UA's weapon specialization, martial characters would often end up with using the best and coolest magical weapon they found. Yeah, there were a LOT OF SWORDS. But also some weird stuff, just because that's what you found. After specialization, characters would choose their weapon, and just ... you know, keep on looking for a magical version of that particular thing.

Weapon specialization is a good idea in principle but needs some toning-down from the as-written version in UA, mostly so the benefits come in slowly as you level up rather than all right up front. I like that it served to - to a small extent, anyway - broaden the selection of weapons we'd actually see used in play.

3. Demi-human expansion. There were more demi-humans, they were allowed into more classes, and they level limits (which weren't always ... observed) were raised. So suddenly "building" race + class became much more of a thing.

More PC-playable species was a poor move. Allowing the existing demi-humans into more classes and to advance farther was great but it meant having to tone down a few baked-in species benefits unless you never wanted to see another Human PC.

Obviously, this wasn't building in the same way that it was later on. But I'd argue that 1e UA was the genesis. IMO, YMMV.

You're probably right.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I've heard a lot of people mention darts for low level magic users, but in my area ... no one (and I mean no one) ever used darts until at least level seven!

Here's the thing. In AD&D, MUs had three choices- daggers, darts, and staffs.

They had one proficiency, and a -5 if they weren't proficient, and didn't gain another proficiency until level 7. That meant that you pretty much had only one weapon until level 7.

Here's the issue-
Staff- Melee, relatively common to find a magic weapon.
Dagger- Melee or missile, relatively common to find a magic weapon.
Dart- Missile only, no magic darts existed.*

*In the DMG; I can't recall them in any modules, but maybe there was an example?

So if you picked darts, that meant that not only did you know that you weren't getting a magic weapon (likely ever), but you only had a missile weapon. Which was a BIG DEAL. Because in AD&D, you can't use missile weapons in melee combat. So if your low level magic user ever got into a situation where something got into melee combat with 'em, then he couldn't attack him with a weapon (because darts are missile weapons only) or really cast spells (because spellcasting when you're getting thumped on in AD&D is ... difficult).

Everyone I knew either picked daggers (so they could have ranged/melee choices) or staffs (because that's iconic).

Also, darts? Those are really uncool. I know, Roman war darts. But seriously ....

Shrug. I guess our philosophy was "if you're a MU is in melee at level 1, you're screwed anyway so might as well have something useful for the majority of time."

And magic weapons went to the folks expected to be in melee. so the MU never got them anyway.

 

[Lanefan]

2. A lot of tables didn't incorporate the AD&D weapon proficiency system (they were coming from 0E).

I find that somewhat surprising. We've used the proficiency system forever, and still do.

But for those who did, here is a brief refresher-
If you were a fighter, you started with 4. You gained one every three levels. The wording of the rule is unclear, but it was common for many people I played with to choose two or three weapons at the beginning and leave the remaining slots open (in case they found a magic weapon of another type).

This is also a new one. In the fiction, why would someone just starting out not be trained in everything they could do (i.e. have all their proficiencies filled)?

Otherwise, they'd have to wait for fourth level to use it. Why does this matter? Yes, by the tables long swords were more common. But they weren't ALL OF THEM. There were some countervailing issues-
a. Modules. It would be a shame if you got Blackrazor, Whelm, and Wave ... (bastard sword, hammer, trident) and everyone is like, "Oops, not long swords!" There's a weird sprinkling of awesome weapons in modules, and they aren't all long swords.
b. Random, man. Yes, swords had their own category (III.G). But ... there were other weapons sprinkled in the other tables (some were in the miscellaneous tables, III.E.1.-5*, and some were in the Rods, Staves, and Wands table, III.D), and one table is all the other weapons, some of which are cool (the HOLY TRINITY). But yes, let's say you are going random, and you reasonably assume that 70% of magic swords are long swords. But 20% are broad swords. You luck out and find a Holy Avenger. Or Vorpal Weapon. Or Sword of Dancing. Or you find a two-handed sword of life stealing. Suddenly, you might want to switch up your sword game. ....

Allowing some trade in magic items helps alleviate this a bit, in that you can sell what you can't use and hope to find something to buy that you can use.

*Fun-ish fact- there are three magic tridents in the miscellaneous item table (four if you count the cursed one ... GYGAX!!!!). All of them are magic weapons. One is fighter only, but the other two? They are C-F-T, useable by Clerics and Thieves. .... Clerics and Thieves can't use tridents.

.... facepalm ....