Why would you want to play *that*??

[Lonely Tylenol]

I didn't say the nine reasons I listed were an exclusive list, merely a list of the most common reasons by far to play weird characters. Exceptions exist.

I wouldn't call this an exception. In my experience, this is the most common reason anyone chooses to play a character: they liked the idea at character rolling time.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I think that the initial problem was people playing weird combos on the basis of their kewl powerz (which may or may not be overpowered, depending) rather than on playing that role.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

I submit that this could not actually have been the original complaint, because the weirder the character, the lamer the kewl powers. At some point (usually around LA +1) the returns are so bad that you essentially have to pay people to play them.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

There is no such fact. D&D can be played as a role-playing game. But it needn't be. Don't lose sight of the fact that RPGs developed within (and to a certain extent out of) D&D. D&D is older than role-playing, and there is and ancient strand withint D&D in which gaming matters and roles don't.

D&D is older than systemized role-playing, and itself grew out of tactical-level wargames.

Actually, I've played 3.x D&D (can't recall if it was 3.0 or 3.5) unambiguously as a wargame before, and it's not a bad little squad-level tactics game, if a bit slow. Nothing at all wrong with that style of play.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

I submit that this could not actually have been the original complaint, because the weirder the character, the lamer the kewl powers. At some point (usually around LA +1) the returns are so bad that you essentially have to pay people to play them.

There's a difference between kewl powers and powergaming, though, admittedly, the OP didn't seem to grasp it.

Being able to superleap into the air, freeze time, gather a ball of immense magical/psionic/ki energy and then release it in a gigantic blast of raw destructive force = kewl power. Even if it deals 3d6 damage at 12th level.

Being able to tear through any CR-appropriate encounter in one round - unless properly buffed; then it's a swift action - and then heal any damage your lesser companions suffered = powergaming.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

There's a difference between kewl powers and powergaming, though, admittedly, the OP didn't seem to grasp it.

Being able to superleap into the air, freeze time, gather a ball of immense magical/psionic/ki energy and then release it in a gigantic blast of raw destructive force = kewl power. Even if it deals 3d6 damage at 12th level.

Being able to tear through any CR-appropriate encounter in one round - unless properly buffed; then it's a swift action - and then heal any damage your lesser companions suffered = powergaming.

So then the complaint is not that the players are trying to break the game, but are in fact trying to enjoy the game. This confirms my characterization of the OP as a "badfun" post. If the OP's players really want to run a game with Naruto-style epic battles and he's trying to shoehorn them into Tolkein-esque fantasy (or plain vanilla D&D, or whatever it is his sacred cows are), I can imagine that he might be frustrated. And so will his players. I'd say that neither one of them are "right" except that his players haven't gone online to try to slander his taste, but I can't say the same for him. I'd suggest that he find a gaming group with expectations about genre that are more similar to his own, and that his players do the same.

 

[Agback]

You're gonna get savaged for that one.

Maybe.

I presume you meant to say that systemised roleplaying games began with D&D.

I meant to say that and more. That [systematised] RPGs began within D&D, and that D&D got going before [systematised] RPGs. D&D was something else before it was an RPG, and for some people it retains the appeal that it had before [systematised] RPGs.

When pre-schoolers jump onto playground equipment shouting "I'm Superman!", they're roleplaying.

Yes, but neither they nor we call that 'RPG', so I don't think there was any danger of confusion in what I said.

D&D is an extension of that, not the other way round.

No, actually. As a matter of historical fact, D&D is an extension of miniatures wargaming. The roleplaying aspect is something that came in later.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

As a matter of historical fact, D&D is an extension of miniatures wargaming.

QFT.

However, the roleplaying aspects of the game developed quite quickly.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Removed

 

[Raven Crowking]

Removed

 

[Seeten]

Totally offended. Also, my sides hurt.