Wik's Triumphant Return to 3e!

[Wik]

Welcome back. Have you looked any at pathfinder? will you be returning to lew? there is a living pathfinder here if you are interested to know more. You were greatly missed at living en world when you left, but no guilt and no pressure.

Nah. Part of my gaming change is to not spend any more money on RPGs. Unless they look really, REALLY exciting (and I haven't been that excited about a gaming product since, what? Iron Heroes? Frostburn? Unearthed Arcana? In any case, it's been awhile).

While Pathfinder is put forward by some really cool guys, the product itself actually seems less interesting for what I want than core D&D. See, we're playing Dark Sun, which is a setting I haven't had a chance to play for a looooonnnnng time.

As for living campaigns... I enjoy them, I really do, but the big problem is my own life. It goes from incredibly slow, where I can dedicate a lot of time to an online game, to a 24/7 situation in a heartbeat where I simply do not have time to keep my energy level up. It is, basically, not fair for me to run OR play a game. I do miss it, though!

***

One of the things I really like about 3e the second time around is how easily I can houserule things. And how readily I can ignore the rules on the GM's side of the screen, and just not CARE. I have absolutely no problem going "hm. I'm going to ignore this monster's improved grab. Maybe I'll just give it a rend ability instead. DONE."

I've also been able to throw in some favourite 2eisms - Piecemeal Armour (ala Skills and Powers), Dark Sun Weapon Materials, Psionic Wild Talents, and even dumbed down Character Kits! - and had no real worry about stuff like "Game Balance".

This may sound funny, but three(ish) years or so of 4e has taught me that Game Balance is overrated... and it's also made me want to interject more 2e into my game and not feel guilty for wanting to say that.

Really, my "3e" game is destined to become something like version 2.95 with a 4E update.

Seriously, though:

* 3.5E as the starting base.
* Add in e6 variant (which fixes most of my big complaints of the game).
* "Three Token" system where players can spend tokens for game/narrative effects - and the GM can spend those tokens against PCs.
* 2eisms - Psionic Wild Talents, Character origin "kits", Piecemeal Armour, Weapon Materials
* 4E Dark Sun weapon breakage rule (modified - made more complex)
* 4E Critical Rules mixed with 3e Critical Rules mixed with other critical rules mixed with...
* 4E Starting Hit Points (sort of)
* 2E Material Components for spells

It's been a lot of fun browsing books, figuring out what to add. Before the Dark Sun campaign actually begins (we're doing a prequel right now, and then going balls to the wall to finish our 4e campaign before really starting our Dark Sun game properly), I might even make some big changes to the setting itself, to make things wholly my own.

If only there were a way to add Grippli to Dark Sun....

 

[Shades of Green]

Indeed, E6 seems to me like the most palatable variant of 3.xE, and the only one that still appeals to my tastes.

 

[Wik]

Indeed, E6 seems to me like the most palatable variant of 3.xE, and the only one that still appeals to my tastes.

From personal experience, the game does seem to fall apart at around 8th level, so I'm curious to see how E6 works. Because I'm keeping the number of feats available down (right now, it's basically just core PHB, nothing else, though that will change slightly), I find myself wondering how the game will play out.

That being said, I found with 4e that the game was actually a lot of fun until around 10th level, so really, there isn't too much of a difference between the editions (since 4e's 10th is around 3e's 7th level... or so).

 

[Spatula]

One of the things I really like about 3e the second time around is how easily I can houserule things. And how readily I can ignore the rules on the GM's side of the screen, and just not CARE. I have absolutely no problem going "hm. I'm going to ignore this monster's improved grab. Maybe I'll just give it a rend ability instead. DONE."

I've also been able to throw in some favourite 2eisms - Piecemeal Armour (ala Skills and Powers), Dark Sun Weapon Materials, Psionic Wild Talents, and even dumbed down Character Kits! - and had no real worry about stuff like "Game Balance".

Seems like it was just yesterday (well, it was the end of the 3e days) that folks were posting here about abandoning 3e for older editions because they felt constrained by the seemingly-sacrosanct rules, for fear of upsetting the game balance. Funny how things come around.

Congratulations on finding a better fit for you & your group. But I find myself wondering again, what the heck has happened to DMs in the past 11-12 years that has made them so reluctant to hand-wave and house-rule the game?

 

[Scott DeWar]

[rant]

Spoiler

I still prefer the 2nd edition players options

[/rant]

 

[Wik]

Seems like it was just yesterday (well, it was the end of the 3e days) that folks were posting here about abandoning 3e for older editions because they felt constrained by the seemingly-sacrosanct rules, for fear of upsetting the game balance. Funny how things come around.

Congratulations on finding a better fit for you & your group. But I find myself wondering again, what the heck has happened to DMs in the past 11-12 years that has made them so reluctant to hand-wave and house-rule the game?

My theory? the rules were less broken out of the box, so people were inclined to not change things too much.

In 1e, for example, you were pretty much REQUIRED to rewrite the initiative system. And invent THAC0. In 3e, though, you knew that if you fiddled with, say, the initiative system, you could really affect how the game played out - rogues might do less damage, certain spells became less (or more) useful, etc. And you'd be afraid of tack-on effects.

Messing with initiative in 4e would be even worse. Even small changes would have huge trickle-down effects.

My theory, at least.

 

[scourger]

Very cool. I've pondered a way to return to d20 but need a way to make it simpler to run. Maybe an E6 variant would make it more like Savage Worlds on the DM side.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Trailblazer made my 3.x simpler to run. Not vastly, but noticeably.

Simple things like
- the smaller skill list, elimination of skill synergies, and ditching cross class skills.
- Nothing is inherently immune to crits or sneak attacks (except incorporeal)
- A unified spellcaster mechanic that makes multiclassing spellcasters not a moronic thing to do (though it is a bit of a learning curve to figure it out)
- Ditched Craft feats except for consumable magic items.
- Iterative attacks limited to 2 attacks at the same bonus.
- 3 step Encounter Budgeting for designing encounters with a desired challenge to the PCs (this alone was worth the $5 pdf for the book to me)
- Trailblazer's action points make my encounter design more forgivable because it gives PCs ways to survive overly nasty battles when the time is needed to save their bacon, and if I was lax in giving my PCs magic item rewards the action points let the PCs boost themselves in ways some magic items were required for. To me, this made my life as DM less neurotic in planning encounters.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Trailblazer made my 3.x simpler to run. Not vastly, but noticeably.

Simple things like
- the smaller skill list, elimination of skill synergies, and ditching cross class skills.
- Nothing is inherently immune to crits or sneak attacks (except incorporeal)
- A unified spellcaster mechanic that makes multiclassing spellcasters not a moronic thing to do (though it is a bit of a learning curve to figure it out)
- Ditched Craft feats except for consumable magic items.
- Iterative attacks limited to 2 attacks at the same bonus.
- 3 step Encounter Budgeting for designing encounters with a desired challenge to the PCs (this alone was worth the $5 pdf for the book to me)
- Trailblazer's action points make my encounter design more forgivable because it gives PCs ways to survive overly nasty battles when the time is needed to save their bacon, and if I was lax in giving my PCs magic item rewards the action points let the PCs boost themselves in ways some magic items were required for. To me, this made my life as DM less neurotic in planning encounters.

I had been meaning to look at Trailblazer. With that post, I've seen enough to know its not for me. Thanks for the (unintentional) heads-up!

 

[Scott DeWar]

Go ahead and look it completely over DA. as you may still have a second opinion.