Wild Mage & Practiced Spellcaster Combo

[pawsplay]

The rules say she can't cast Fireball at a caster level lower than 5th: the minimum level required for a wizard to cast fireball.

Not "the minimum level a wizard can choose to cast fireball", but "the minimum level required for a wizard to cast fireball".

-Hyp.

The minimum level required for a wizard to cast fireballs is 5th, the level at which they get 3rd level spells. Thus, they must choose to cast it at 5th or higher. However, fireball does not require a caster level of 5th. A caster must choose to cast it at 5th or higher.

I see nothing that indicates fireball fails to function at less than 5th level; it is simply impossible to choose to cast it at a lower level, because the rules for magic state that you must cast it at the minimum level. That is, at the minimum level for you to cast the spell. As you will note there is nothing in the spell description that states a fireball is a caster level 5th or higher spell; that information can be gleaned from reading the wizard class description. A sorcerer must cast the spell at 6th. A sorcerer cannot cast it at 5th, because he cannot cast 3rd level spells at 5th level. The fireball itself, however, does not care.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That is, at the minimum level for you to cast the spell.

Exactly. If the minimum level for you to cast the spell is 5th, and your caster level is 4th, it's below the minimum level for you to cast the spell.

If you're a sorcerer, and the minimum level for you to cast the spell is 6th, and your caster level is 5th, it's below the minimum level for you to cast the spell.

The fireball may not care, but you do.

-Hyp.

 

[The Thayan Menace]

The Matrix has Me ....

What about my caster matrix QUERY (below)?

-Samir

 

[gnfnrf]

So what happens when the Wild Mage tries to cast Fireball, and turns out to be caster level 4th? All we know is that she can't have done that in the first place (but she clearly just did). Does the spell fizzle? Does she expend the action, but not the spell? Does the action not occur (in which case, why shouldn't she just try again?)

Personally, I believe that there is the caster level which is the variable in the spell formulae, and the class level in the casting class, which determines spell access by class. Most of the time, you don't have to differentiate between them. In this case, the minimum is of the latter kind, not the former.

--
gnfnrf

 

[Hypersmurf]

So what happens when the Wild Mage tries to cast Fireball, and turns out to be caster level 4th? All we know is that she can't have done that in the first place (but she clearly just did). Does the spell fizzle? Does she expend the action, but not the spell? Does the action not occur (in which case, why shouldn't she just try again?)

I'd say she expends the action, but not the spell. It was not cast (since the caster level was below the minimum), but she attempted to cast it (requiring an action).

-Hyp.

 

[gnfnrf]

I'd say she expends the action, but not the spell. It was not cast (since the caster level was below the minimum), but she attempted to cast it (requiring an action).

While I think that is the best answer, balance wise (assuming she can't cast the spell), is there any rules justification for this result?

And I apologize that I cannot comment on the Practiced Spellcaster/Spell Enhancer question, since I don't know where spell enhancer is from or how it works.

--
gnfnrf

 

[The Thayan Menace]

Well?

If Nigel is a 5th level wizard / 2nd level wild mage and casts spell enhancer ... does the +2 caster level boost to his next spell get applied before or after the wild magic adjustment?

[See my xaos matrices below.]

-Samir

 

[Hypersmurf]

If Nigel is a 5th level wizard / 2nd level wild mage and casts spell enhancer ... does the +2 caster level boost to his next spell get applied before or after the wild magic adjustment?

Based on WotC's recommendation in the FAQ, it would be the second. 9, 9, 9, 10, 11, 12.

-Hyp.

 

[pawsplay]

Exactly. If the minimum level for you to cast the spell is 5th, and your caster level is 4th, it's below the minimum level for you to cast the spell.

... because you can't cast fireball until 5th level. Not because it is an impossibility to cast a spell of any arbitrarily low level. Find a rule that says a fireball will not take effect at all if a wizard casts it with an effective caster level of 4.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Find a rule that says a fireball will not take effect at all if a wizard casts it with an effective caster level of 4.

It's below the minimum level at which he can cast it!

-Hyp.