D&D 3.x Will 3.5 hurt sales for 4E?

[Jack99]

It is quite true. After 3.5 i gave them the benefit of the doubt.

However, Dungeon and Dragon being cancelled really push me onto the edge but I figured oh well maybe it will still be for the best but I was definitely a bit edgy.

Then 4th edition came at gencon, after stating that it was so far away(purposefully vague language or not you knew what they wanted you to think so I dont buy the purposefully vague argument) just shattered their credibility for me. So if not for the fact that i am getting the 4th ed books free I would not be buying them and I certainly will not purchase anything extra.

Necromancer and Green Ronin are just as good and I can believe a word they say.
And of Course troll Lord Games present me with a great option in C&C. Who needs wizards.

Sorry, but statements like yours just make me go /boggle

What on earth does cancelling Dragon Mag and Dungeon Mag has to do with trust? Maybe you think it was a bad decision, but did WoTC every promise that those two magazines would continue indefinitely as they are. For the record, they are still going to be there, just in e-form.

Second of all, regarding the statement that it is far away. What do you expect? There are rules when it comes to publicly owned companies, they just cant say stuff like that, without being penalised heavily. Sure, they could have been even more vague, but honestly, would it have made much of a difference? I would bet a fair amount of beers that it wouldnt

As to the companies you mention. I am sure they are nice and afaik, the work they do is great, but lets face it, without WoTC you wouldnt have DnD, 3.0, 3.5 etc. So saying you dont need it, is a bit odd imho.

Anyway, you are ofc welcome to have your opinion, mine is just that i have a hard time understanding it from your arguments. Then again, I might just be missing some obvious point, it sure as hell wouldnt be the first time it happens

 

[Imaro]

Second of all, regarding the statement that it is far away. What do you expect? There are rules when it comes to publicly owned companies, they just cant say stuff like that, without being penalised heavily. Sure, they could have been even more vague, but honestly, would it have made much of a difference? I would bet a fair amount of beers that it wouldnt

So...from this logic it isn't unreasonable to assume that the possibility of 4.5 could happen. I would really rather WotC just stated that they were unable to comment on certain questions than give ambiguous answers. But, that's just my take on it.

As to the companies you mention. I am sure they are nice and afaik, the work they do is great, but lets face it, without WoTC you wouldnt have DnD, 3.0, 3.5 etc. So saying you dont need it, is a bit odd imho.

I'll give you the WotC saved D&D argument...but at the same time there are other games. I don't think WotC "saving" D&D gives them some kind of free pass to do whatever they want and not have it held against them. YMMV of course, but I think a company should be judged on what they are doing presently, not what they've done in the past. And, before anyone takes this the wrong way, I'm not saying WotC is doing anything wrong...just gioving my oppinion on the statement above.

Anyway, you are ofc welcome to have your opinion, mine is just that i have a hard time understanding it from your arguments. Then again, I might just be missing some obvious point, it sure as hell wouldnt be the first time it happens

I can totally understand a certain nervousness, from WotC's recent actions to be wary of 4th edition. They may be going in a direction someone doesn't like...with the D&D game or as a company. Since these reasons are often highly individualized, I don't think anyone is wrong or right in this situation. For some, they're cancellation of a print Dragon and Dungeon is a bad thing...for others it's great, but the only way to show WotC which you believe is through the allocation of ya dollar bills.

I personally don't think 4th edition's initial sales will be as high as 3rd edition(though I would be curious to see if it sells as well as 3.5). 3rd edition came off a ten year hiatus and made major rules revisions that, love it or hate it, was an entirely different game. They had follow along articles and hype in Dragon and Dungeon, etc. I also think that some of D&D's fanbase have drifted to OGL systems that support their playstyles better than D&D(True20, C&C, etc.). You then also have to subtract those who will stay with 3.0 or 3.5. I think the most interesting thing will be to see if anyone goes back once they've actually read and tried out the rules.

 

[Dykstrav]

I think it would be most interesting to keep a list of all the ENWorld posters who say they aren't planning to buy any 4E products and then check that list a year from now to see how many have actually stuck to their guns .

Oh, I'm not gonna lie about that. I know that I'm gonna pick up at least the three core rulebooks and pore over them before I make the commitment to convert. I'll also probably get H1 to help with that decision as well.

 

[Treebore]

Yep. I'll buy the PH. If I am impressed by what is in i I'll buy the DMG and MM. I seriously doubt I'll give up C&C for 4E as a game master, but I'll give it a whirl or two as a player, on line.

 

[delericho]

The truth is that 4.5 is coming.

Two things:

1) WotC have specifically said that 4.5 is not coming. You may elect not to believe them; I'll address that below.

2) 3.5e is now regarded as a bad move, for a number of reasons. People seem to very much dislike the 'point' revision; it pulled the rug out from under a lot of d20 companies; and it is seen as a 'stealth edition', with all of the drawbacks of printing a new edition, and none of the benefits of the anticipation thus generated.

It makes much more sense, for a business standpoint if nothing else, for them to not do a 4.5 edition, and skip straight to 5th edition. Whether that is in 5 years or 8 is open for debate; my guess would be closer to the former than the latter.

And as others have said wizard's reliability is pretty low right now. As far as business practices go I wouldn't beleive a word they say.

I once thought as you do. I posted to that effect, was called on it, and did the search. I was not able to find a single quote direct from any Wizards employee that was untruthful. The closest you get is Scott Rouse's comments at D&D Experience that 4th Edition was "a long way off." At that time, it was more than a year, which is enough to qualify as "a long way off". The one about them "not working on 4th edition"? That was "we're not working on a 4th edition that will require the use of miniatures".

If I have missed something, please post the relevant quote. Otherwise, can I humbly suggest that perhaps you might want to consider if you have just maybe misjudged them?

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

The truth is that 4.5 is coming. WotC have made it clear that core rulebooks are where the money is.

Indeed, that's why they're trying to move away from a three core books per edition model, to a three core books per year model. I know it's something a lot of people don't want to hear, but the number of people that hold on to the idea that PHI, MMI and DMGI constitute the core of the game will ultimately be inversely proportional to the life of the 4th edition.

 

[Glyfair]

Two things:

1) WotC have specifically said that 4.5 is not coming. You may elect not to believe them; I'll address that below.

And just as a reminder, I will point out that "electing not to believe them" is not the same as saying "they are probably just lying." It may just mean that we feel that WotC doesn't feel any need to stick to their statements to their customers.

If I have missed something, please post the relevant quote. Otherwise, can I humbly suggest that perhaps you might want to consider if you have just maybe misjudged them?

The one quote I still haven't found a refutation for is the "all major D&D announcements will be made the D&D eXperience one" made about last years GenCon. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find that exact quote. The terms to search for are all too common (you'd be surprised at how many people talk about their "D&D experience").

 

[Mouseferatu]

The one quote I still haven't found a refutation for is the "all major D&D announcements will be made the D&D eXperience one" made about last years GenCon. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find that exact quote. The terms to search for are all too common (you'd be surprised at how many people talk about their "D&D experience").

My understanding is that the reason you can't find that quote is that it doesn't exist. What they said was that the D&D Experience would be the source for a great deal of D&D news and announcements--but that they never claimed all of them, or exclusively.

Of course, I, too, cannot find the quote to cite an actual source. But there it is.

 

[Glyfair]

My understanding is that the reason you can't find that quote is that it doesn't exist. What they said was that most major announcements would be made at the D&D Experience.

Of course, I, too, cannot find the quote to cite an actual source. But there it is.

I agree that might be the case, but I don't think that's right. The quote was around last GenCon and seemed to be designed to quell rumors that 4E would be announced at GenCon 2006 (which was widely rumored). It could have just been coincidence, and been two different comments made near together (since they were really pushing the D&D experience as the place for D&D with the rebranding of Winter Fantasy).

It's not really going to affect whether I buy 4E, but it might affect how willing I am to buy certain products for 4E. I am really curious "exactly" what was said (or at least what was reported as being said.)

 

[Mouseferatu]

I agree that might be the case, but I don't think that's right. The quote was around last GenCon and seemed to be designed to quell rumors that 4E would be announced at GenCon 2006 (which was widely rumored).

Well, here's this: http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3720294&postcount=25