D&D 4E Will 4E be crunchy or smooth?

[Hammerhead]

Thankfully there should be fewer unforeseen "combos" since they have seen the majority of splat material once or twice before. Things like the Dread Necromancer being able to Take "Tomb tainted soul" to continually cure himself most likely won't happen unless it is intended.

There will be combos, but most will have been intended in the first place, rather than pieces of dissociated splat material that lead to Pun-Pun and such

Yeah, spending a feat and taking a sub-optimal class for free healing...what a power combo.

And Pun-Pun only requires one non-SRD source, the Sarukh (?) from Serpent Kingdoms. Everything else just helps him achieve ultimate power even faster.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Dear Lord, I hope so. Right now, I find running 3.5 to be closer to a job than fun. I can see where someone who is deeply fascinated by number crunching and memorizing hundreds of pages of obscure rules might love the current level of complexity, but I think WotC has finally realized that these folks are a minority.

Funny, crunch sells really well. Perhaps you're mis-appraising the target demographic.

On the other hand, some of us prefer the drama of high fantasy and the excitement of playing a character in an exciting story. It's the old dichotomy, the CCG/WoW types vs. the drama queen types.

Well, actually, I hate CCGs and find WoW frustratingly simplistic and dull. Also, I'm one of those "character first" types who is always trying out new indie RPGs that have mechanics for something other than bashing people's skulls in. I like games that encourage roleplaying, and which make character development the first priority. However, when I want tactical combat, I play D&D.

"Fast, easy, and complex" seems like a contradiction to me. But what I'm hoping for in 4e (I refuse to type "4.0", since that implies an inevitable 4.5) is a game that scales more smoothly. So there will be various levels of complexity, rather than painfully simple (D&D Basic Game) and horrifically complex (D&D 3.5 core).

I hope that they manage to make a game that can be played using a simple handful of rules, but into which you can dig for more complex and interesting options. On its surface, play is fast and easy, but without sacrificing too much of that, you can dig up complexity and include as much or as little of it as you need without undermining the basic style of play.

That's what I'd like to see.

 

[Midknightsun]

I like a game that has fiddly bits for the players, who only have to control one dude, and yet comes out of the gate streamlined on the DM side (with possible option to add fiddly bits). Possibly implies that PCs and NPCs/Monsters play by different rules --

If 4e can do this, I'll be a happy camper. Make my role as DM more fun and less work, please!

 

[Shortman McLeod]

I hope that they manage to make a game that can be played using a simple handful of rules, but into which you can dig for more complex and interesting options. On its surface, play is fast and easy, but without sacrificing too much of that, you can dig up complexity and include as much or as little of it as you need without undermining the basic style of play.

Yep, you've summed up my feelings exactly. In a strange kind of way, I hope that 4e is more like GURPS A core, "basic" set of rules that are fast and straightforward, with as much added complexity and crunch as desired.

 

[JRR_Talking]

i think it would be ok for PC and monsters to play by different rules

Its important to know where/why/what ba PC is made up from.

I dont mind a monster manual that says :

a 'Screaming NooNoo' is a 3rd level monster and has 24hp

but doesnt overly explain why

john

 

[Atlatl Jones]

Take a look at Star Wars Saga. "Fast, easy, and complex" is a perfect description of it. Its gameplay is streamlined and easier to pick up, and character creation has gotten rid of a lot of calculation cludge, but characters have tons of options to choose from. Characters in it are far more customizable and unique than in the previous version of d20 Star Wars.

 

[Villanelle]

EDIT: this is partly why RPGs are failing so badly. They operate like fortune tellers; they sell you your own dreams back to you. There is absolutely no reason to spend any money at all, but sometimes you need the dreams reflected back at you.

Oh, is that why they're failing? Funny, all my friends play RPGs. And I hear attendance at this year's GenCon superseded previous years' attendance. Huh. I thought RPG's just helped you dream cooler dreams.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Take a look at Star Wars Saga

I'm really starting to think that, at least until next May, this is now required reading.

 

[Gargauth]

I think what they are aiming for is tons of options for character creation and advancement (100 ways to play your fighter) but once those options are selected, the actual use of them at the table will go very quickly.

 

[Khairn]

It'll start off smooth and then within the 1st year get as crunchy as 3.5, if not crunchier.