Will Levels be taken out and shot?

[cignus_pfaccari]

To me levels is D&D. If I wanted to play point based fantasy I would play exalted (I actually have alot of their books, just never get to play).

Or GURPS, which has one big point pool as opposed to Exalted's seven or so pools.

I cannot believe that levels will ever be taken out of D&D, and certainly not out of 4e, ESPECIALLY since we've been told 4e will support levels 1-30.

Brad (who would like to play Exalted one of these days...)

 

[kenmarable]

Will levels be removed for 4e?

No. They've already mentioned levels pretty clearly, so wondering if they are in or out is a settled issue.

Besides it would be a colossal blunder for them to do that. The argument in the original post appears to be "If they removed levels from the game, they could publish adventures that apply to all levels." That just doesn't hold water. Making the hands-down biggest change to the game ever just to sell more... adventures??? The business model for WotC is largely to support sales of the core books. Making a dramatic change like that for the business reason of turning their lowest selling category of products into, what, their second lowest selling? No, they won't. Besides, the idea that you can just include scaling information for different "point values" is just taking the existing scaling for levels and crossing out the word "level" and writing in "points". It changes nothing.

So, no, a lot of things are still in question for 4e, but I can safely say levels are very clearly in.

 

[kenmarable]

Heres a better question...

Will levels continue to be 1-20?

Nope, it will be 1-30 in the Players Handbook. One of the few things they have clearly stated as fact.

I don't think it's been as definitively stated, but when I asked my Magic 8-Ball if there will be support for level 31+ in any book, it said "All signs point to no."

 

[Plane Sailing]

I was just thinking about Eyes of the Lich Queen, which I have ordered but not yet received. The adventure is set in Eberron for levels 5-9. It is not news to anyone on these boards that this adventure is niched twice from the get go. First you need a party in Eberron and secondly you need to be 5th level to be able to use it.

...

So I wonder: In 4th edition will levels be removed? -

I don't think that there is any way that they remove levels, it is one of the core things that makes D&D into D&D.

And your given example doesn't provide a need to get rid of levels (which as it stands are simpler and more robust than your suggested 'points' thing anyway).

The only thing that Wizards would need to do to make adventures more widely valuable would be to include 'scaling the adventure' stuff in the adventure guide.

Furthermore, the new encounter design methodology in 4e is going to make that work much more easily anyway... if (for the sake of argument), you know that a 5th level party would expect to face a 2500xp encounter, while a 10th level party would expect a 5000xp encounter and a 1st level party would expect a 500xp encounter... all the adventure writers have to do is give the xp value of the encounter and it should be fairly obvious how to scale things up (by adding a certain xp value of additional or new creatures) or scale things down (it would be nice if 4e happens to include guidelines on that for how to scale down an extra tough creature - would it be worth less xp if it was at 25% hit points and had already used up all its per day resources for instance?)

Cheers

 

[Frostmarrow]

Nope, it will be 1-30 in the Players Handbook. One of the few things they have clearly stated as fact.

I don't think it's been as definitively stated, but when I asked my Magic 8-Ball if there will be support for level 31+ in any book, it said "All signs point to no."

They might have trimmed it down to Heroic, Paragon, and Epic. Three levels of spells, three games of D&D. Hey, it's less than what they used to have!

 

[Belorin]

I was just thinking about Eyes of the Lich Queen, which I have ordered but not yet received. The adventure is set in Eberron for levels 5-9. It is not news to anyone on these boards that this adventure is niched twice from the get go. First you need a party in Eberron and secondly you need to be 5th level to be able to use it.

I dont think Wizards will give up their business model of supporting different settings for their game. I don't now why they keep this up but I guess they try to cast a wide net. (For me I'd just the same have D&D be the setting.)

So I wonder: In 4th edition will levels be removed? -Frankly, what is the importance of levels? If there were no levels every module would fit every group. Every monster would fit every group and it would be simpler to target players with new feats, prestige classes and challenges if there were no levels involved.

Of course, I do enjoy levels in play but not enough to justify their existance since they are an obstacle when it comes to buying products.

Naturally you need to have some model for experience and growth in the game but I'm sure the designers can come up with something that works if they were ordered to*. I think Wizards really want to sell Eyes of The Lich Queen to every group with a game in Eberron, not only those whom just happens to be at 3-4th level.

What do you think, will levels be the next sacred cow to get taken out and shot?

Levels could be done away with, but what about HP?

 

[Frostmarrow]

Levels could be done away with, but what about HP?

Ever increasing HP is a crazy idea to begin with.

 

[kenmarable]

Whoops, didn't notice the dates to realize there was thread necromancy at work here. Sorry for pointing out the obvious. I was just really confused why people were asking these things when it was clearly settled. Sorry about that!!

 

[Belorin]

Ever increasing HP is a crazy idea to begin with.

If you think that check the game at www.arduin.com you start out with a set amount of HP and there are no levels, just a skill progression, the more you use the skill the better you become at it.
Each class has three class skills and you purchase others with your XP.