Will the complexity pendulum swing back?

[Willie the Duck]

Just to put this into context for those not used to GURPS the power plant is a different system to the engine. But the power plant rules were written for consistency with the battery rules which were always in kilowatt-hours

True, and a good point to mention. A car (for instance) would have a power-plant component and a drivetrain component. However, weren't the drivetrains and engines also rated by wattage and thrust, but not horsepower? Or am I misremembering (it has been over 20-25 years, so I have no illusions that I remember this all perfectly).

 

[Neonchameleon]

Prime example of why there needs to be a DM, and the DM needs to be all-powerful. As Shadowdark puts it, "The only Rule is that you make the rules."

The old lady who swallowed the fly would approve!

The problem happened when the writer of the game rules decided to try making a physics engine saying "this is so" rather than a user interface that aids communication and interaction regarding a shared narrative world.

 

[kermit4karate]

The old lady who swallowed the fly would approve!

The problem happened when the writer of the game rules decided to try making a physics engine saying "this is so" rather than a user interface that aids communication and interaction regarding a shared narrative world.

Eh, they covered their bases. In the absence of clarity or consistency, just write "If something doesn't work at your table, change it or throw it out and don't look back."

It's easy. It cuts to the chase. Opens a lotta creative doors. Also gives some folks conniptions, but c'est la vie, amirite?

 

[Neonchameleon]

True, and a good point to mention. A car (for instance) would have a power-plant component and a drivetrain component. However, weren't the drivetrains and engines also rated by wattage and thrust, but not horsepower? Or am I misremembering (it has been over 20-25 years, so I have no illusions that I remember this all perfectly).

Mea culpa. It's been about as long for me too.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Eh, they covered their bases. In the absence of clarity or consistency, just write "If something doesn't work at your table, change it or throw it out and don't look back."

It's easy. It cuts to the chase. Opens a lotta creative doors. Also gives some folks conniptions, but c'est la vie, amirite?

As a GM I want to focus on the game and not on dealing with either pointless minutae or dealing with flaws the designers have dumped on my world by trying to make and force me to run a physics option. And I don't want to be all powerful; it harms my GMing and it harms the game.

So to fix the flaws in their system the designers have given me unwanted make work and forced me into a harmfully separate role. As I say the old lady who swallowed the fly would approve.

 

[kermit4karate]

As a GM I want to focus on the game and not on dealing with either pointless minutae or dealing with flaws the designers have dumped on my world by trying to make and force me to run a physics option. And I don't want to be all powerful; it harms my GMing and it harms the game.

So to fix the flaws in their system the designers have given me unwanted make work and forced me into a harmfully separate role. As I say the old lady who swallowed the fly would approve.

Isn't there another thread today about how amazingly popular 1E is/was? A poll? Dealing with the flaws and pointless minutiae didn't stop that train.

 

[mamba]

Isn't there another thread today about how amazingly popular 1E is/was? A poll? Dealing with the flaws and pointless minutiae didn't stop that train.

beggars can’t be choosers, the TTRPG space is very different today from the 1e days

As to 1e today (your is), unless you count the OSR as 1e, I do not believe it is popular at all

 

[Argyle King]

This one is a yes. The giant is Huge and therefore has their lifting and carrying capacity multiplied by four for being two size categories above medium. Even a Str 6 giant can lift more and is thus meaningfully physically stronger than a Str 20 medium character.

But Str is not just about raw strength; it also covers applying it. Taking an example from 3.5 a monkey is a superb climber. It has a +8 racial ability to climb checks for a total score of +10. Meanwhile an (African) elephant is Str 30. It has no special skill at climbing so its climb skill is ... +10. An elephant is as good at climbing a cliff or a tree as a monkey. (Ok, nitpicking myself there's a case you should give the elephant the one handed penalty for only having one trunk)

Raw physical strength differences that are a function of size are covered by the creature's size.

Sorta...

I agree that D&D 3.5 has oddities in how the rules work.

In current D&D, the default assumption in the PHB is that there's little-to-no inherent measureable physical difference between most species.

Perhaps that's too hyperbolic or too oversimplified on my part, but my point is that GURPS tends to work in a way that is consistent with how I imagine that a situation will play out.

To be fair, it is not without deviation. For example, GURPS gives an accuracy bonus to firing a machine gun on full auto. That is inconsistent with my real life experience. However, I understand that it makes sense in a movie-realism way, and I'm willing to forgive the occasional deviation because the rest of the game makes sense to me.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Sorta...

I agree that D&D 3.5 has oddities in how the rules work.

In current D&D, the default assumption in the PHB is that there's little-to-no inherent measureable physical difference between most species.

Except size. Size is inherent and very obviously measurable. Oh and dark vision. And tremor sense. And powerful builds. And poison resistance. And...

Not that I disagree in the slightest with the take "GURPS is more appealing than D&D because it is more realistic". GURPS was ternage-me's favourite RPG even if my tastes now are more narrative.

 

[Morrus]

In current D&D, the default assumption in the PHB is that there's little-to-no inherent measureable physical difference between most species.

Only if you only distinguish them by their ability score adjustments and nothing else.