D&D 5E Will the inclusion of the option of DoaM cause you to not buy 5e.

[ExploderWizard]

Huh? It's always going to be the case that some PCs can do things that some monsters cannot (eg no giant rat can cast meteor swarm). And vice versa (eg there's no way in Basic D&D for a fighter to get +2 to hit from a berserker rage).

Even if we focus on aspects of build that PCs and NPCs have in common, Moldvay suggests letting players reroll 1s and 2s for starting hit points (page B6) but doesn't extend goblin NPCs the same privilege (page B56).

I did not mean to imply that every random orc who fights with a great weapon would have this option. Not all orcs are 1st level or greater members of the fighter class. For those npcs who ARE members of the fighter class and DO fight with a great weapon, the ability to specialize will be as open to them as it is to a PC.

How frightening it would be if all goblins were 1st level fighters!

 

[Obryn]

I see neither the requirement nor an issue with some NPCs and some monsters doing some damage on a miss. I don't want anything like PC/NPC symmetry - like where the bad guys are actually built like Fighters with the GWF option, just like a PC - but as a mechanic, it's fine. It's simple, light, evocative, kind of scary.

I'd think it was a flavorful way to represent incredibly aggressive enemies like berserkers even if PCs didn't have the same option.

Always give a monster an even break. If PCs are special snowflakes with plot immunity then there isn't an actual game taking place-merely a storytelling show. Which is fine and good if that is your goal.
For those that seek gameplay, it is pure bollocks.

Just so we're on the same page, you know nobody is actually arguing this, right?

There need not be PC/NPC symmetry for an RPG to be a game. I can give a list of examples (hint: it's almost all modern rpgs), but since I think (hope) you were being rhetorical, I'm not going to bother.

 

[billd91]

There need not be PC/NPC symmetry for an RPG to be a game. I can give a list of examples (hint: it's almost all modern rpgs), but since I think (hope) you were being rhetorical, I'm not going to bother.

Does the term "modern" here actually mean anything objective? It sounds more like a buzzword aimed at giving anything not deemed "modern" the impression that it is archaic, anti-progressive, backward, or otherwise deficient to me.

 

[Obryn]

Does the term "modern" here actually mean anything objective? It sounds more like a buzzword aimed at giving anything not deemed "modern" the impression that it is archaic, anti-progressive, backward, or otherwise deficient to me.

I don't think the definition is really crucial to my point, which is that symmetry isn't required for an RPG to be a game. So just pick whatever definition makes you happy.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

Always give a monster an even break. If PCs are special snowflakes with plot immunity then there isn't an actual game taking place-merely a storytelling show. Which is fine and good if that is your goal.
For those that seek gameplay, it is pure bollocks.

ITP: Being able to do 2-3 damage on a miss makes you an immortal special snowflake.

 

[ExploderWizard]

ITP: Being able to do 2-3 damage on a miss makes you an immortal special snowflake.

No. Getting options as a 1st level fighter that are not available to other 1st level fighters makes you an immortal special snowflake.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

No. Getting options as a 1st level fighter that are not available to other 1st level fighters makes you an immortal special snowflake.

And the citation that says other 1st level Fighters don't have access to this is....?

 

[herrozerro]

No. Getting options as a 1st level fighter that are not available to other 1st level fighters makes you an immortal special snowflake.

So wait, all of the fighter's options are just cries for special snowflake status? Because if a fighter chooses protection, then he is special right?

This is related to fighters can't have nice things right?

 

[ExploderWizard]

And the citation that says other 1st level Fighters don't have access to this is....?

Holy circle jerk Batman!! Lemme outta here!

 

[EnglishLanguage]

Holy circle jerk Batman!! Lemme outta here!

What's with the attitude? All I'm doing is asking you to back up your claim.