Will WotC ever get it right?

[-Avalon-]

FWIW< I would love to see what you come up with...after Real Life(tm) gets outta th' way.

Real Life is a solo of N+5 level... If you survive the first few rounds, it is just a tedious grind ... good luck on getting past THAT beast!

 

[Nail]

<chuckle> Truth spoken.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Real Life is a solo of N+5 level... If you survive the first few rounds, it is just a tedious grind ... good luck on getting past THAT beast!

LOL touché, Sir

 

[Marshall]

..and I think you'll find that some of the powers you find "screwed up" others do not have any problem with. <=Which suggests significant subjectivity in the analysis.

True to the point that there are literally dozens of different concentrations for a player to exploit. The problem only shows up when the power curve actually goes negative in the area you are concentrating on.
Its entirely possible for a large portion of gamers to not see an error, just like its possible for a group to not have a problem with 3e grapple. If you dont use it, its not a problem for you. That doesnt make it not a problem for the game.

(FWIW, I'm not suggesting the powers are perfectly balanced. Far from it. We are all aware of the mis-cues and pitfalls of game design.)

Of course, and I havent claimed that all powers are misleveled either. Just that a significant minority are glaringly incorrect. So much so that a simple skim thru the book makes them stand out.

You seem to be particularly hot-under-the-collar about this. Perhaps you could use that energy to make a list of powers you think have the wrong level? That would be helpful.

No, just mildly annoyed that a supposedly professional outfit keeps making the same simple mistake.
I'm not the one getting paid to do this, and if I can see the error on my first read thru, what was the designer doing?

Citing only one example and then calling the whole work poorly done is ....

Who said the whole work?

 

[Nifft]

No, just mildly annoyed that a supposedly professional outfit keeps making the same simple mistake.
I'm not the one getting paid to do this, and if I can see the error on my first read thru, what was the designer doing?

Presumably finding and correcting all the other errors.

Seriously, you should already have your answer on why it's rather common for someone like yourself to randomly find one error in a larger work. If you keep repeating this fallacy, it'll eventually start to look like trolling.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Regicide]

Presumably finding and correcting all the other errors.

Seriously, you should already have your answer on why it's rather common for someone like yourself to randomly find one error in a larger work.

Glad theres only one!

If you keep repeating this fallacy, it'll eventually start to look like trolling.

Wait, it's a fallacy that it's an error?

Thats not trolling, thats being dissatisfied with the quality of the product. Bugs in software, which is vastly more complex than DnD, heck, take one look at Neverwinter Nights or DDO, are reguarly complained about and yet somehow it's acceptable that the RPG is riddled with problems? Pfft. This particular error is blatently obvious, but overall minor. But it's hardly the only one, and the number of errors if far higher than it should be.

The very first thread, stickied on this board is, guess what, errors. Many of which haven't been "updated" over a year later. If you don't complain about a product's lack of quality, do you think they'll make the next one better?

 

[Nifft]

Wait, it's a fallacy that it's an error?

Nope. The fallacy is:
1/ "I found an error!"
2/ "Therefore, I am superior to those who did not find this error!"
3/ "Therefore, I shall decree that they are incompetent!"

Now, if you could do what John Cooper did (which was to consistently and repeatedly find and correct a bookfull of errors per book), then you'll have the rhetorical justification to say things about the competence of someone else's editing.

But finding one error => WotC gets nothing right? There's a missing sense of perspective.

If you don't complain about a product's lack of quality, do you think they'll make the next one better?

Complain away. But have new complaints when your old ones turn out to be not that big a deal.

This is a very minor error -- to the point some people in this thread have argued that it's not actually an error at all. Add it to the error list and let's move on.

Cheers, -- N

 

[-Avalon-]

I maintain my perspective of :

It is not an error, because the damage is two different elemental types, and by looking at the elements themselves, independently, the power is better than the next lower in line.

Most players do not play "Melting Pots", they play focused artists of some craft or style.

Daggermasters, Archer Rangers, Laser-Clerics, etc.

So, I have problems believing that a sorcerer would focus so heavily on a couple of elements to be the true master of his style, then pick an element that is out of flavor for him (and thereby weaker due to not being bumped up by his feats or equipment choices-for instance, a tiefling sorcerer, is most likely focusing on fire, and may not pick anything to do with acid, unless it includes some fire damage as well)...

If you are going for the balanced approach, why look at the damage as the end-all-be-all anyway? Balance would infer getting those powers because of the differing elements even more-so... You would want to have just the spell for that BBEG's weakness...

I don't see how this is an error.

 

[Marshall]

Nope. The fallacy is:
1/ "I found an error!"
2/ "Therefore, I am superior to those who did not find this error!"
3/ "Therefore, I shall decree that they are incompetent!"

If it were as simple as "an" error, you'd have a point. However, its an error that gets repeated most every time they release a new set of powers. There are points where its debatable about the level of the power. This isnt one of them.

Now, if you could do what John Cooper did (which was to consistently and repeatedly find and correct a bookfull of errors per book), then you'll have the rhetorical justification to say things about the competence of someone else's editing.

But finding one error => WotC gets nothing right? There's a missing sense of perspective.

And playing a straw man doesnt an argument make.
I know my boss would find me incompetent if I kept making the same mistake over and over, I'd bet yours would too. Especially if that mistake was over 50% of your finished product.

Complain away. But have new complaints when your old ones turn out to be not that big a deal.

This is a very minor error -- to the point some people in this thread have argued that it's not actually an error at all. Add it to the error list and let's move on.

Cheers, -- N

And thats where most of the debate in this thread is from. "Its not a mistake" isnt a defensible position. If it was intentional, it opens entire other worlds of gross incompetence.

 

[Marshall]

I don't see how this is an error.

They are both Storm Magic powers. They are intended for the same PC to take both of them.

Now whether thats a good idea is another thread altogether.