D&D 5E (2014) Will you continue to give WotC D&D your $$$

[gamerprinter]

The OGL doesn't affect your ability to make a Spelljammer supplement. You can only reference Spelljammer if you publish though the DM's Guild and accept that license. There is no Spelljammer SRD.

I wasn't planning on selling it anywhere else than DM's Guild, I sell all my other stuff through DrivethruRPG. I do sell stuff at the Paizo store, but it pays like $30.00 every 3 months, whereas DTRPG makes me $200 a week. So while I do sell stuff on other sites, I don't get anywhere near the sales volume that I get at DTRPG. If I can sell this Spelljammer supplement, I'd be willing to produce one-shots or other setting guides to followup that supplement, however, D&D has never been my go to game system to support as a publisher, so I wouldn't be overly disappointed if I could not create for D&D. I've been a publisher for 15 years and have yet to produce anything for D&D so far - other than map products which are D&D compatible, but maps work for any game.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The current OGL 2.0 gives them 6 months. As far as taking them to court, that's going to be up to the big (well, relatively big in TTRPG 3PP space) guys.



So ... anyone anywhere being able to copy your stuff, including WOTC, is somehow better? How? WOTC has only ever used this once based on what others have said. If others are stopped from copying your work and the one entity has never found a reason to do so since the inception of the OGL, how is that a terrible thing? If that's even the case, we haven't seen detailed wording yet (not that I'm saying arguing that aspect one way or another).



People will still go where the money is.



If they can legally change it now they will be able to legally change it in the future.

There is no current OGL 2.0. That has not been released. The six months, if they ever happen, don't start until it is.

 

[Bravesteel25]

I laid out my stance in another thread but I am basically at the point where I need to see what WotC actually does rather than what they tried to do. I can't blame them for wanting to create a closed ecosystem centered around D&D Beyond, but I also don't think it wise if they don't allow already published OGL products to continue to be sold. Time will tell and actions speak louder than words for me.

 

[Lichbeard]

On the corporate evil scales, what is being proposed barely registers. I think, even if the revocation of 1.0a is enforceable, the OGL 2.0 would have effectively zero impact on anyone.

There's a whole lot of hyperbole and some theories verging on tinfoil hat conspiracy territory. In theory WOTC could shut someone down. There's no indication that they would unless someone was publishing something vile. In theory they could copy someone's work, but unless you mark your content as PI (which from my understanding is not simple and rarely done), they could have always copied it. Very little published under the OGL is marked as PI and other than a couple of monsters many years ago they've never directly copied anything. Ideas and concepts are copied by most TTRPGs all the time, of course which is why we have products like Strixhaven.

But the actual impact? If I'm wrong and WOTC starts copying and pasting text verbatim, shutting down product left and right? Then I'll change my mind. I also suspect it would make this controversy look like a tempest in a teapot. It's not the end of the world or the third party marketplace as we know it. It's some HASBRO exec who doesn't understand the industry with an uninformed grasp of the marketplace that pushed a monumentally bad idea. Not only was it unnecessary* but also gave companies momentum to break away from D&D's long shadow.

*Even the royalties thing they dropped didn't make a lot of sense from a financial perspective, it seems like the overhead costs WOTC could have incurred would have outweighed the income, especially considering that the big producers had a much lower rate.

Are you willing to bet your life on it? Prob not right? Either are a lot of other people who make a living doing it. So people are already being shut down. Kickstarters ended before even starting, entire companies trying to figure out another avenue to keep their bills paid, employees paid and the lights on. A LOT of people depended on the concrete agreement with the OGL1.0a to exist.
WOTC set this all up and reaped the benefits for over 20 years. Then out of the blue is trying to destroy these people's livelihoods.

If you are really just fine with that then I'm not sure what a company needs to do to make your naughty list but maybe you need to rethink it?

The OGL 2.0 thing even tells many of those companies they won't be sued for what they already did(how nice of them) but they can't make any new product on their own OGL rpg all the way up to people making product for 5E.

All the best products for 5E are third party. WOTC pays minim wage rates and you pay for what you get. BAH

People freak out of every little thing online so people are used to hearing the sky is falling over every little thing. It builds an attitude of apathy. So when something really forked up happens.....that apathetic attitude steps in and people just don't care. Our only hope is enough people do care to make a difference.

 

[Oofta]

Are you willing to bet your life on it? Prob not right? Either are a lot of other people who make a living doing it. So people are already being shut down. Kickstarters ended before even starting, entire companies trying to figure out another avenue to keep their bills paid, employees paid and the lights on. A LOT of people depended on the concrete agreement with the OGL1.0a to exist.
WOTC set this all up and reaped the benefits for over 20 years. Then out of the blue is trying to destroy these people's livelihoods.

If you are really just fine with that then I'm not sure what a company needs to do to make your naughty list but maybe you need to rethink it?

The OGL 2.0 thing even tells many of those companies they won't be sued for what they already did(how nice of them) but they can't make any new product on their own OGL rpg all the way up to people making product for 5E.

All the best products for 5E are third party. WOTC pays minim wage rates and you pay for what you get. BAH

People freak out of every little thing online so people are used to hearing the sky is falling over every little thing. It builds an attitude of apathy. So when something really forked up happens.....that apathetic attitude steps in and people just don't care. Our only hope is enough people do care to make a difference.

I understand that change is scary. On the other hand I see no evidence that they are trying to destroy anyone's livelihood. If an OGL 2.0 gets released, if I were a 3PP I'd wait for the inevitable lawsuit to see if they even can revoke the OGL 1.0a.

But this idea that they want to shut everyone else down? Why would they? There's little to no money in writing adventure mods for them. The core books on the other hand have a very, very long tail and are still selling in the tens of thousand per month. That's pretty good for an investment you made close to a decade ago. In addition, they're looking at other sources such as movies, streamed series, etc. As long as people have to buy their core books to use the 3PP, it's just other people doing their work for them. Unless you mark your text as PI they (and everyone else) can already copy it. But they haven't with the exception of two monsters in a 3.5 supplement.

Could they do all these terrible things people keep talking about? I guess. I see no reason to believe they will. People keep talking about how the sky is falling and that WOTC is practically the second coming of a Nazi regime. But if you write a product that requires the core D&D books, I see no reason to worry. They want you. If you just want to write something that uses rules similar to D&D then I'd be looking at the ORC. In addition, it sounds like they did listen and have changed, it seems that anything current or published within 6 months after OGL 2.0 will be able to use 1.0a.

I've had companies I worked for slowly go bankrupt, get sold or the only way to keep my job would have required 100% travel. I understand that change can be terrifying. Maybe I'm wrong and they want to be the only game in town because they really are that dumb (and I wouldn't put it past high level execs to be that dumb). I just think that 6 months from now when the dust has settled people will realize that WOTC is not Evil Inc.. Or not, and I'll have a big sad face and post a "you were right". I just wouldn't bet on that sad face.

 

[Mallus]

Magic 20-sided says: ask again later.

 

[jerryrice4949]

It's all too easy to say "no," especially as controversy still rages and people are emotionally heated. But to meaningfully walk away without back-sliding across the long-term? I'll believe it when I see it. I've seen all too many angry fans in other fandoms regress and jump back on the consumer train. I've even done it myself. That doesn't mean everyone will come back. There will be people who will never again play a game of WotC D&D or buy another product from them. But our psychological desire to consume products, espsecially those we have attached warm feelings of nostalgia to, has a nasty habit of overriding our "better principles." Will the people who swear to never buy another WotC D&D product feel that way when their favorite, e.g., Planescape, rolls around this year? What excuses will they find to forgive WotC? Or maybe they will say that they don't forgive WotC but that won't stop them from buying the Planescape book once it comes out. Who knows how you, me, or anyone will feel about this in a year's time?

I wish I could have a list of people on this forum who have declared they will never purchase WotC D&D again and then revisit that list in a year or two and see who was back to buying D&D products from WotC.

Well exactly. Well said. Many people say never but it is a metaphor for their anger and not an actual promise. Some people won’t come back but most well.

 

[jerryrice4949]

Ultimately, I do think that the choice in my groups is either play DnD or not play at all. And I'd rather play. We've tried a few alternative systems and they haven't stuck. Sure, games like Honey Heist are great for one-shots, and the Exalted campaign came closest, but it's not something that I care to DM. I've tried P2 and didn't like it. Monster of the Week and other PbtA games were okay, but again, I'm not sure I'd DM them. FATE remains the system I'd prefer to go to, but some of my players still baulk at aspects and how free form it is. So DnD 5e remains the one we can all default to.

This is my situation as well. We briefly tried PF2 and everyone in the group found it the system to slow down the story. Unless One DND is a dramatic departure from 5E my group wants to stick with it.

 

[Lichbeard]

Well exactly. Well said. Many people say never but it is a metaphor for their anger and not an actual promise. Some people won’t come back but most we

Turns out, what everyone is saying might only be as trustworthy as the OGL!

 

[Steel_Wind]

No more for WotC. It doesn't mean I won't go back to PF2 or a new 5.5 fork, but 6th? No. I've left D&D before twice, I can do it a third time, too.

I did buy the 4th core rules and we played it once. I bought the 5e core rules, and while I played in the Tyranny of Dragons campaign, I never ran 5e until less than a year ago.

It doesn't mean there is a chance of NIL I buy and play 6th ed, but it's low. If they have a $hit-hot VTT for 6th ed? I'll want to look at it, that much is for certain.

I might live long enough to get to a 7th or 8th ed; sigh and I might not, too.

I am certain some of you will live long enough to play them though!