Will you laugh or cry at the gnomes' good-bye party?

[Corinth]

There's room for only one race of midgets, and gnomes were always second-rate, so good riddance.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

amethal
There are people who will buy all 3 books as soon as they come out.

There are also people who will only ever buy the Players Handbook, for whom having gnomes in the Monster Manual is not very helpful.

Maggan
A very good point. I've been struggling to understand why people are saying "gnomes are gone from core", when they will be in the MM, but your explanation sounds good and plausible.

There are also DMs who won't allow races from outside of the PHB to be used for PCs. The rationale I've been quoted is that "if they had meant for players to use for PCs, they'd be in the PHB." Despite the vast number of PC capable races in the 3.X Monster Manuals, my current GMs have fallen into this category. No Hobgoblin Fighters or Kobold Conjurors for me.

(FWIW, there are also DMs who will excise from the game anything they don't care for- IME, Monks & Paladins- even if it is Core.)

 

[Vocenoctum]

Option 3 - Won't miss them, because they'll be right there in the Monster Manual along with other playable races that I will allow my players access to as I see fit.

Will they be statted as player races, given the expanded role races play in 4e?

And as to the explanation given above about only buying the PHB: It would be extremely atypical for an entire gaming group to buy only the PHB. The DM at least usually will buy the MM. Ask him to borrow it and make your dang gnome! The first step in character creation is "ask the DM."

1) in 3.5, do you consider the races of the MM to be core player races? Available without having to question the DM?
2) It's a design philosophy that is representative of the way 4e is being built. It may not matter to you, but it does to some people. (Myself included).
3) I'll be buying the PHB to check the system out. I play online. I assume some version of the gnome will be posted, probably with the same condescending attitude that has greeted questions of "why so few gnomes in DDM?" in the past. I don't find that to be good customer service.
4) When they had to make decisions about what stayed and what was added, they created 3 NEW races to supplement the core races. The decision for them was that these were more central to playstyle than gnomes. Dragonborn could have easily been relegated to the MM, but instead it's core and gnomes are "monsters".

But, it's just a matter of opinion. As always, if the number of customers that like the change excede those that hate the change, and it's good for business, than it's worth losing me as a customer in the long run.

 

[shilsen]

Neither. I'll be talking to my good buddies in the Trust (I run an Eberron game and will continue to do so, even if I switch to 4e) about how we can best spin this to our advantage and keep making my PCs absolutely terrified of gnomes.

 

[GeorgeFields]

3rd option - keep enjoying them since they aren't leaving...


They're in my 1e AD&D PH
They're in my 2e AD&D PH
They're in my 3.0 D&D PH
They're in my 3.5 D&D PH

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Will they be statted as player races, given the expanded role races play in 4e?

From what I have read, I believe gnomes and other races in the MM will be presented with rules to use as playable races. One of the designers mentioned this when fears that the parity between monsters and PCs would take monster races away from the players. I have no link (maybe someone more adept at the Search function can locate it).

1) in 3.5, do you consider the races of the MM to be core player races? Available without having to question the DM?

I don't believe the races in the PH are available without asking the DM. 3.5 PH, p. 6: "CHARACTER CREATION: [Step One] Check With Your Dungeon Master: Your DM may have house rules or campaign standards that vary from these rules."

2) It's a design philosophy that is representative of the way 4e is being built. It may not matter to you, but it does to some people. (Myself included).

This thread is about gnomes. I only offerred options to those who wish to still play them in 4E.

3) I'll be buying the PHB to check the system out. I play online. I assume some version of the gnome will be posted, probably with the same condescending attitude that has greeted questions of "why so few gnomes in DDM?" in the past. I don't find that to be good customer service.

You should take the advice about what happens when you assume from Sir Benny Hill. That silly Brit was actually very wise in that little bit of word play.

4) When they had to make decisions about what stayed and what was added, they created 3 NEW races to supplement the core races. The decision for them was that these were more central to playstyle than gnomes. Dragonborn could have easily been relegated to the MM, but instead it's core and gnomes are "monsters".

Not everyone is going to be happy with every decision. The designers have to make choices based on their experience and market data and stick by their guns. As someone said in another thread, slap the word "dragon" on a book and it sold better.

But, it's just a matter of opinion. As always, if the number of customers that like the change excede those that hate the change, and it's good for business, than it's worth losing me as a customer in the long run.

I can agree with you here. Although IME those who have said they would NEVER buy new editions in the past, usually do. Myself included (swore I would NEVER buy 2E, dangit). Even a close peer of Gary Gygax here in Northern Illinois, who told me time and time over that he hated 3E, finally played it and has enjoyed it. I think they are banking on the phenomena that gamers will give in and update when a game is hard to find under the old ruleset.

 

[Vocenoctum]

You should take the advice about what happens when you assume from Sir Benny Hill. That silly Brit was actually very wise in that little bit of word play.

The assumption was that gnomes would be online, that was all. I'm not assuming the attitude, but I won't be surprised if it's there.

Not everyone is going to be happy with every decision. The designers have to make choices based on their experience and market data and stick by their guns. As someone said in another thread, slap the word "dragon" on a book and it sold better.

We'll see, but it's one of those things, if Dragonborn and Teiflings are in demand as core, then I think the game has departed from me.

Heck, everyone accuses D&D of becoming more WoW like, but in WoW I can play a gnome.

I think they are banking on the phenomena that gamers will give in and update when a game is hard to find under the old ruleset.

A game can always stay current and draw in new players, hopefully enough to counter the old players that leave when it changes to something that excludes them.

 

[Vocenoctum]

This thread is about gnomes. I only offerred options to those who wish to still play them in 4E.

The comment was about gnomes, in that I think the loss of gnomes (besides simply losing a favorite race) can also be disliked because it shows the design philosophy behind 4e.

 

[Orius]

I'll miss 'em. Durn gnome haters!

 

[DrunkonDuty]

I'm not a gnome hater. I love gnomes. I just couldn't eat a whole one.