Wish (again)

[FireLance]

I would like to a page or two in a WotC book that goes into real detail what you can and cannot do with a wish, and really helps a person understand the dividing line between reasonable and unreasonable, with lots and lots of examples. Wish is such a complex spell, it really needs an in depth explanation.

[edit: and examples on where you might draw the line in different campaign styles, lower or higher magic et c. ]

Hi Oni, I started a thread on a related topic over in the House Rules forum, but it died for lack of interest. If you're interested, you could have a look here.

 

[Destil]

I'd say the wish limits and twisting of intent are more of a holdover from eariler editions of the game, before the XP cost, when something was needed to keep it's power in check. . .

 

[Dr_Rictus]

I don't have yet PCs who cast those spells, but my Cleric is looking forward to reach level 17, so she will have access to ALL spell lists of any other character, except Wiz/Sor levels 8th and 9th (and Druid, for the different ones).

You may well have thought of these things, but start with contingency (you need the pick up the focus) and spellstaff. Possibly simulacrum if you're that sort of guy. A simulacrum of a 17th-level cleric has a pretty good chance of being able to raise dead.

 

[Magic Rub]

Let's not forget 1 key point about Miracle Kids...

You don’t so much cast a miracle as request one.

Do you really think that a god who is asked for a "Miracle" every single day will grant one? It's divine intervention, a direct gift from a god. To use such power daily is way out to lunch IMO. Sure I can see if you're in battle & you need a spell to win or you'll die then the god would grant the spell no questions asked.
But to use it for a more trivial application... lets say for example use it for casting fly or teleport to cross a gorge when instead you could walk a day to the nearest bridge, or make your own makeshift bridge in an few hours. I would say that the god would deny the request because there are other means regardless of the minor inconvenience to your character. Miracle is IMO balanced compared to a Wish if DM'd properly.

You may now rip me apart

 

[kreynolds]

You may now rip me apart

I accept.

The aspects and implications of Miracle boils down to a few possiblities.

1) D&D assumes that all characters with access to Miracle are humbled, thus they would automatically choose to walk the extra day, rather than fly over the gorge.

2) D&D assumes that all Deities evaluate all requests for a Miracle on a case by case basis, making sure that you have good reason to request to be able to fly over the gorge, balancing that request against the needs of the world around you, and weighing the importance of you saving the fair lady on the other side of the gorge against the Deitie's own self-righteousness and busy schedule.

3) If Deities routinely denied Miracles because they didn't personally view the request as worthy, they wouldn't have many followers.

4) Perhaps the one and only possibility is that a cleric of a humbled Deitie would be humbled himself, thus he would never even ask for a Miracle to allow himself to fly over the gorge unless he really needed to in the first place. Conversely, if your Deitie isn't humbled, and is in fact a bit frivilous himself, there shouldn't be any reason why he wouldn't grant you a Miracle when you request an apple pie.

5) Last, but not least, maybe some are reading way too much into this.

 

[Magic Rub]

LMAO

I knew I could count on you KR to be the first in the rip Magic Rub apart line. And for the record I agree with every thing you've just said... or typed (whatever) My post was more in response to this

I don't have yet PCs who cast those spells, but my Cleric is looking forward to reach level 17, so she will have access to ALL spell lists of any other character, except Wiz/Sor levels 8th and 9th (and Druid, for the different ones).

It won't cost a thing, and she won't have to prepare it in advance (she'll prepare Miracle, but can choose on the fly which spell to duplicate).

Of course, it's 2 level higher at least. But wouldn't you like to have a feat that allows you to cast spontaneously ANY of your spell below 8th or anyone else's spells below 7th, for such a small metamagic cost?

I should have quoted him in my last post.