Wish and its limits

[James the Newbie]

I dont know if there is an expansion on the limits of wish outside the players hand book (Because if there is a link to it is something I would really appreciate)

I am really wandering about the part that lets you wish for just about any magic item, does the 25000 GP limit apply to that as well? (I am just thinking, as there are plenty of nice things I might try and wish for... carefully mind you)

More specifically I would like a ring that can once per day use polymorph any object as if a level 20 caster had used enlarge spell - if you are human. And getting a wish spell is in this campaign easier than getting an item like that.

(If you have a method of phrasing that well, I would be interested to hear it)

_____
On a similar note: I have two sub questions that may have some interesting answers


Sub question 1:
If a pc [no one at our table, or most normal tables would try this] wished something like (I will give a crack at writing something kinda difficult to warp)
"I wish the metal ring in my hand had the power of a fully charged 'ring of three wishes', and that nothing but the ring was directly influenced by the magic of this spell"

Would you warp that horribly (If so how), or just directly tell them that they cannot in any way wish for more wishes

Sub question 2:
This one I would be tempted to try
What would you do if the player ended their wish with 'as I interpret it'

 

[Grogg of the North]

Just a quick glance at the wording of wish and it doesn't have a price on the magical item. So as an Evil GM what I would do is say you could wish for a magical item of any price, but anything above 25,000 GP carries a significant risk of "Bad Stuff". Either its cursed, you attract the unfavorable attention of an outsider or some other powerful being, or it demands sacrifice from you every time you use it. Remember that Wish is basically giving the GM free reign to do whatever they want.

Sub Question 1:
Of course I'd warp it horribly. First thought is that, yes it has the power of a fully charged Ring of Three Wishes. However, its power is tied to another ring. At any time there are 1d3 wishes remaining and every time you make a wish there is a cumulative chance that the other owner notices and comes after you. You have no idea how many wishes are remaining when you go to make your wish because your ring doesn't have any rubies on it.

Sub Question 2:
As I interpret it? Okay. I ... I ... eye .... Your wish is interpreted how the beholder god wants. Gwa ha ha ha ha. Or simply repeat that back to them.

GM: As I interpret it?
Player: Yes.
GM: *Evil Smile* Okay.


Also, I cite Things Mr. Welch can no longer do in an rpg:
568. My first wish cannot be "I wish you grant all my wishes to the spirit and letter of the wish'

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

"Provisos? You mean limitations? On wishes? Huh..."

Be careful man, anytime you mess with Wishes You are asking for the DM to give you a punnishment, unless you're willing to be humble.

Yeah, one common way to warm a Wish spell is to give you want you want, but it belonged to someone else much more powerful than you, and they know you have it now, and they want it back.

 

[Jack Simth]

I dont know if there is an expansion on the limits of wish outside the players hand book (Because if there is a link to it is something I would really appreciate)

I am really wandering about the part that lets you wish for just about any magic item, does the 25000 GP limit apply to that as well? (I am just thinking, as there are plenty of nice things I might try and wish for... carefully mind you)

RAW, the Magic Item Creation clause of Wish has no fixed limit. That said, it's still limited:

The minimum XP cost for casting wish is 5,000 XP. When a wish duplicates a spell that has an XP cost, you must pay 5,000 XP or that cost, whichever is more. When a wish creates or improves a magic item, you must pay twice the normal XP cost for crafting or improving the item, plus an additional 5,000 XP.

(emphasis added)

So while you can Wish up +5 Heavy Fortification, Greater [Sonic, Fire, Electricity, Cold, & Acid] Resistance, Undead Controlling, Etherealness, Greater [Silent Moves, Shadow, Slick], Glammered Adamantine Full Plate, it costs 55,556 xp to do it (5,000 for Wish, plus twice the 25,278 xp it would cost to craft). Wishes from magic items don't cost XP... because it was imbued at the time of crafting, which also means that wishes from magic items don't have the option of improving magic items. A Wish from a critter that gets it as a spell-like ability can theoretically give you any item you want that way... but that's a game balance problem of bypassing costs, not an inherent issue with Wish itself.

More specifically I would like a ring that can once per day use polymorph any object as if a level 20 caster had used enlarge spell - if you are human. And getting a wish spell is in this campaign easier than getting an item like that.

The problem here is that you're getting into Custom Magic Item Creation - which, as noted in the section where you find those tables, are just guidelines and a starting point. They're really intended for DM use only, for good reason. You'd have to ask your DM how much it costs to make, and if it's a viable item at all.

Sub question 1:
If a pc [no one at our table, or most normal tables would try this] wished something like (I will give a crack at writing something kinda difficult to warp)
"I wish the metal ring in my hand had the power of a fully charged 'ring of three wishes', and that nothing but the ring was directly influenced by the magic of this spell"

Would you warp that horribly (If so how), or just directly tell them that they cannot in any way wish for more wishes

Depends on the source of the Wish. If he's casting it himself, I'd let it work... if he's got the 36,836 XP to burn. If it's coming out of an item, then the specific amount of XP available to the Wish he's using was put in at the time of the crafting, and won't sustain the cost. If he's getting it from something that has Wish as a 'free' ability, well, my house rule in that regard is that 'extra' XP above and beyond the base cost of Wish has to come from somewhere. It works, but it drains 31,836 XP from him in the process, probably dropping him a few levels.

Sub question 2:
This one I would be tempted to try
What would you do if the player ended their wish with 'as I interpret it'

Depends on whether or not I felt like twisting. If I want to twist, that doesn't stop me - I just use the wish to horribly, horribly twist the person's perspectives, first. If he's PoA'd into something Mindless, well, he can't interpret anymore, so nothing happens beyond the PoA to turn him into something Mindless.

 

[tankiller]

After reading this I must warn you about the downside to wishes. In my time I have only ever seen 2 wish spells cast both ended with the retirement of someones character (both Rogues surprisingly). The first was in a high lv game and brought the rogue back flat broke with all of his wealth and possessions gone. He was then unable to kill anything or survive in combat. The second cursed the my rogue and removed everything that made him a rogue, no sneak attack and he can't turn his back to the party making it impossible to search for or disable traps since you must turn your back to do those things.

My suggestion is to forget your wish and let someone else get screwed over by the DM.

 

[wingsandsword]

In my experience, the list of things in the PHB that a Wish can provide are the things that it can do so safely, as long as the intent is crystal clear.

Start asking for more, and things get twisted and you're handing the DM a license to shaft your character.

Don't try to get legalistic and technical with Wishes. It never ends well (at least it won't with a competent DM).

If you're sitting on a Wish, I'd hold that in reserve to Wish somebody alive or otherwise fix a huge screw-up and not trying to find a way to game the system to get a beefy magic item.

Items can be stolen, they can be broken/shattered/sundered, and they can be Disjoined. Wishes, to a party below 17th level (or 13th level for a Limited Wish) are for more valuable uncast than cast because they represent a huge and highly versatile application of power.

 

[Samloyal23]

Remember, the gods may grant you your wish, or they may grant your enemy his wish, but they will always grant themselves their wish...

 

[James the Newbie]

Do you think its a good idea to use a divination before a wish (My character is a beugiler anyway)

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Do you think its a good idea to use a divination before a wish (My character is a beugiler anyway)

I think it doesn't matter if you do or no,t it still comes down entirely to DM discretion.

I think you'd do better to bribe your DM by kissing up for a while out of game.

 

[James the Newbie]

I think if I wanted to, I could convince this DM of anything, he doesn't have a large amount of experience, so I would basically just be cheating; I'd rather see if I can balance the wish as a 'fair' use of the spell.