Wish & Miracle?

[Grabuto138]

One way to house-rule in a Wish...

I wouldn't even call it a house rule, really.

As another old 1e player one thing I really like about 4e is that outside of combat mechanics and, to some degree, skill challenges it has thrown alot of the responsibility back onto the the DM by removing the expectation of mechanical consistency.

Back in 1e days wishes were almost limitless mechanically but limited, often cruelly, by DM interpretation. That was half the fun of wishes. I encourage you to treat 4e wishes the way you would treat 1e magic item creation. Let the player tell you what they want to do. Devise a ritual that allows that to happen and build an adventure to make it come about. Make them find the ritual, or find components necessary for the ritual, or appease the outer planar being who will satisfy the ritual. The skys the limit.

I would not, however, allow boring mechanical benefits like an increase in ability scores. If they really, really want that you might as well increase everyone's primary ability by x and then increase monster HP and AC by y and z.

Keep in mind that there are already rituals to create things like floating islands. I remember in 1e when I used wish to get my own island. It rose from the sea in a dramatic fashion and then the rain swept all of the top soil away leaving me with a big barren rock. Come to think of it, I am not sure I ever had a 1e wish work out as planned. Good times.

Edit: To be clear: I loved 3e. I drove to Lake Geneva to get the 3e PH at the con and played well into the release of 4e. The obsession with mechanical consistency was half the fun. Please no edition wars.

 

[pemerton]

I recently placed a Ring of (One) Wish in my game. It was there in the (d20) module I was using - part of a dead wizard's last treasure trove that he had been leaving for his long-gone king - and I thought it would be fun to leave it in. My intention on how to adjudicate it is, roughly, as per AD&D - the activating player states a wish, and the magic of the ring grants it (but perhaps perverting or corrupting excessively self-regarding or self-aggrandising wishes).

As far as Wish as a ritual involving a skill challenge - I would probably look at Loremaster's Bargain (in the PHB) as a place to start.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Another idea:

On the one hand, wishes should be rare and mysterious. On the other hand, some players may want to become a character that actually can grant wishes, etc.

So, the 'solution', is a sort of mix. An epic destiny, which can copy some of the 'balanced' wish powers. (The ability to copy other spells ... the epic destiny basically gives you some power to grab spells outside your class. Maybe the daily power for the ED let's you pick any utility of any class to cast in it's place? In addition to some "cast any ritual as arcane" fluff and maybe some ability to, once per day, perform any ritual, even if you haven't mastered it, etc.

And you get some other wish like stuff (your ED stat buff, and a sort of death ward to go with the "once per day when you die" tricks that EDs get.

The big finale though is that the fluff is that, the immortality for this wish master class is to be source of powerful wish magic. When they die, their magic passes into their possessions, creating rings, lamps, and other magic granting wishes. They were powerful world shapers in life, and wish to continue to do so in their afterlife, impossing their own particular spin on to the wishes they grant, hoping to serve their own purposes as well as those being given the wish.

It may even be fluffed that, as the wizard approaches 30 (or say "31") the "cost" of their magic usage slowly destroys their body which leads to them leaving behind only a few artifacts (a wrinkled hand, a ring, etc) that are imbued with "raw" magic, the stuff that can alter reality, etc.

 

[Riastlin]

Not sure that I would want Wish/Miracle as a spell per se given that 4e is much more about balance across the board at all levels, but I could certainly see it as a ritual. Alternatively, if you are concerned about it getting used too much in the ritual format, you could turn it into a magic item/artifact with limited charges, or use an NPC to grant it (though I realize this takes away from the "wizard has arrived" sentiment).

Personally I think the "has arrived" moment comes first with paragon tier and then again with the Epic Destiny. Paragon characters are definitely a notch above and will be noteworthy in just about any setting. Epic characters have transcended even the great heroes of the world, with very few in history being able to be considered true peers.

 

[Morrus]

Wish is coming soon!

 

[Dannager]

Really, I think I'm looking for that signature spell that meant a Wizard arrived and could really do just about anything with the right imagination and creativity.

D&D is no longer a game about giving spellcasters big fat "I WIN D&D" buttons, while giving martial characters glowing metal sticks.

but having Wish/Miracle at your disposal really was the penultimate spell that defined your powers.

Nitpick, but I'm pretty sure you mean "ultimate", here. "Penultimate" refers to the second most awesome thing.

 

[Matt James]

I was never a fan of these types of spells.

 

[Methos]

Nitpick, but I'm pretty sure you mean "ultimate", here. "Penultimate" refers to the second most awesome thing.[/QUOTE]

Funny, but I actually did mean "penultimate" since their are always greater things than "wishes" for any character, e.g. ascending to demi-god status, achieving lichdom, etc.; just to name a couple.

Having said that, I really like some of the ideas that people have floated around on this particular subject and how to incorporate the ideas of wishes into a campaign. I will definitely have to think about using some of these ideas in a future campaign.

 

[Dannager]

Funny, but I actually did mean "penultimate" since their are always greater things than "wishes" for any character, e.g. ascending to demi-god status, achieving lichdom, etc.; just to name a couple.

Definitely.

 

[fba827]

yeah, as a couple others have said -- the "I have arrived" moment is achieved by virtue of getting the epic destiny (or paragon path if you play a more heroic themed campaign)

Also, wizards get the most rituals so they can, in theory, accomplish many of those same types of things by epic level - walk in to a wizard's tower and ask him to grow all the crops in the area, change the weather, fly across the continent, trap an enemy in a boulder for all eternity, or walk on water? yeah, he can do that, that day, without any special preparations (presuming he has the proper components and access to his spellbook - but the same would have been true in earlier editions).