Wishing for racial abilities

kreynolds · Mar 26, 2002

Whoops. Double-post.

kreynolds · Mar 26, 2002

General Starlight said:
The problem to watch out for is the principle of the path of least resistance (POLR), to which the universe notoriously adheres. A Wish will likely do its best to fulfill one's desires in the shortest, quickest, easiest way possible.

However, it is not easy to affect other living, unwilling creatures with magic that reaches out like that. So it is darn unlikely, when Wishing for a Girdle Of Storm Giant Strength, for example, it would come complete with angry storm giant, and making provisions in the wording of the Wish to prevent that isn't really required. Nor would most of the other wording in that example.

Somebody read Death of a Dragon.

Shard O'Glase · Mar 26, 2002

Considering that a 4th level spell can give some really cool racial abilities permanenty if randomly. (reincarnate) I really fail to see how a 9th level spell costing 5,000xp giving one racial ability permanenty but not randomly is out of line.

But still if people wont allow it like that would they allow a sort of modified contingency, when I die I wish to be reincarnated as a deep gnome. Eat the 5,000 xp, kill yourself lose a level and come back as a deep gnome in thier prime with SR 11+level and +4 dodge bonus,+2 to all saves and a few other abilties.

General Starlight · Mar 27, 2002

The problem with Reincarnate is that the actual PC has NO decent control over what they come back as. Therefore, a PC wouldn't be inclined to think they could come back as anything they wanted and would rather find other means to acquire racial abilities.

I'm a little surprised to see that spell at 4th level now instead of 7th level like before, and it seems better on top of that.

Jim

General Starlight · Mar 27, 2002

kreynolds said:
Somebody read Death of a Dragon.

I'm unfamiliar with this. What is it? Some story where they apply POLR thinking?

Jim

Gromm · Mar 27, 2002

Shard O'Glase said:
Considering that a 4th level spell can give some really cool racial abilities permanenty if randomly. (reincarnate) I really fail to see how a 9th level spell costing 5,000xp giving one racial ability permanenty but not randomly is out of line.

But still if people wont allow it like that would they allow a sort of modified contingency, when I die I wish to be reincarnated as a deep gnome. Eat the 5,000 xp, kill yourself lose a level and come back as a deep gnome in thier prime with SR 11+level and +4 dodge bonus,+2 to all saves and a few other abilties.

No can do thats like wishing for more levels, which cannot be done (ECL +3 for one wish). You also can't wish that the fighter come back as a Troll when he dies (ECL +11).

You also can't wish for the affore mentioned Girdle, because wish does have a limit on the power of the magic items it can create.
Wish is powerful, but it has its limits (which are described in the spell description). Anything not listed there or beyond the wishes power don't happen, happen badly, or happen partly.
If you wish for a Trolls regeneration there are a few possible results:
1) You get the ability for one day
2) You get polymorphed (as polymorph self) into a troll
3) You become a troll and lose 11 levels to balance out the ECL

In the case of regeneration and SR, I would not hesistate to "screw" over the players. They are trying to screw over my campaign by wishing for things obviously too powerful in hopes that it will work. The fairest way to handle anything that is a wish for a power thats too good is to turn the player into that race, and then take away their levels to compensate, or to Polymorph/Shapechange (leaning towards shapechange) them into it as the respective spells.
Don't even consider letting someone wish for natural SR without consequences. In the case originally noted the character would get SR 29. A Mantle of Spell Resistance gives SR 21, for 90,000 gp. Your giving them something much more powerful than even that. All the time. Would you let the player wish for a +3 or +4 Vorpal sword? Both effects would be on par with each other.

Also remember it takes one wish to boost a stat by 1 point. Do you see a +1 Str being equal to a SR of 29? I know I sure don't, and I don't think anyone else does either.
Look at what a single wish is capable of and then compare that to what the player wants. If what they want is better, odds are you need to limit/twist the wish.

Victim · Mar 27, 2002

Yes, wishing for "greater effects" is dangerous, but I don't really think that a permanent 9th level spell effect is greater than the normal benefits of linking 2 or 3 wishes into a mega wish.

I would consider the comments about the value of wish created items and Mantles of spell resistance valid, except for the fact that I think SR items have poor value. The price seems to be geared to keep powerful SR items out of the hands of slightly lower level characters, who would gets lots of benefit (too much) from them. However, in doing so, they are too ineffective for the higher level characters that might make them. In an 18th level game, I'd consider 21 SR to be of little use. Equal foes will penetrate almost automatically, lackeys still have good chances, and bosses will ignore it.

Many characters can reasonably expect to benefit from 29 SR via Spell Resistance spells cast before important encounters anyway, so blowing about 1/2 a level on wishes to get the ability all the time doesn't seem to bad. With a few feats or items, the SR could climb higher via the spell anyway.

Upon further reflection, I'd tend to go with 3 wishes for the SR over 2. 2 to get the 9th level cleric effect which is above normal and then another to lock it in. Possibly Permanency would have to be used also, with the wish used to enable the Permanency on an odd spell and make the ability more inherent so it doesn't get dispelled. The Wish+Permanency combo comes from a 2e module to allow a permanent Fly.