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Wishing for racial abilities
- Thread starter Izod
- Start date
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Depends on the wish.
Wishing for a Drow's SR wouldn't work- if anything I'd have the wish cast the spell Spell Resistance.
Regeneration- Monstrous Regeneration.
Low light vision? Sure go for it, it cost you 5000XP, more than Perm Darkvision.
Or just have it change them to that race (provided its not ECL+1 or greater). Or have it change them to that race and lose enough levels to keep thier ECL the same. ie Wishing for a Drow's spell resistance makes you lose 2 levels and becomes a drow.
I wouldn't however let people pick up abilities that are very powerful (SR, etc) without some downside. After all hes wishing for something not detailed by the description, so he should know the risk involved.
Personally, I'd probably just have the wish replicate Shapchange myself to the form the player is asking for abilites from. They get the abilities and its within the realm of a wish. 5000xp is alot to cast Shapechange, so I don't see it being abused.
Wishing for a Drow's SR wouldn't work- if anything I'd have the wish cast the spell Spell Resistance.
Regeneration- Monstrous Regeneration.
Low light vision? Sure go for it, it cost you 5000XP, more than Perm Darkvision.
Or just have it change them to that race (provided its not ECL+1 or greater). Or have it change them to that race and lose enough levels to keep thier ECL the same. ie Wishing for a Drow's spell resistance makes you lose 2 levels and becomes a drow.
I wouldn't however let people pick up abilities that are very powerful (SR, etc) without some downside. After all hes wishing for something not detailed by the description, so he should know the risk involved.
Personally, I'd probably just have the wish replicate Shapchange myself to the form the player is asking for abilites from. They get the abilities and its within the realm of a wish. 5000xp is alot to cast Shapechange, so I don't see it being abused.
General Starlight
First Post
Wishing For Abilities.
I'm not far enough into 3e to really make the call, but wouldn't it be far easier and safer to wish for a magic item that gave your PC the desired ability (as long as they wore it)? I mean, isn't a ring of regeneration a better idea? Or do you fear losing the ring? You could just as well lose a permanent ability through high level dispel magics or death or some such, and all that cost will eventually die with you, but a ring goes on (unless destroyed, naturally), perhaps even being a family heirloom or part of your PC's family wealth. You don't want to toss it all away when you die, do you?
For my own tastes, I often use economics to help decide such things, if the world's economics are well considered. So if there is some sort of way to buy a Wish for X GP, you can virtually wish for anything you could buy that cost X GP or less, or Wish for anything that duplicated a lesser or equal spell.
To make a normally ephemeral spell effect permanent, however, you'd have to include permanency as part of the spell. That is now 5th level. Under the idea combining two spells and adding one is about right, 5+N+1<=9, so you could make permanent any spell of N =3rd level or less using that technique with just a Wish. Higher level spells are perhaps possible using an actual Permanency spell as well, but since that spell outlines which spells work already, there is good reason to believe spells not on that short list have extra problems.
No general rule will be able to take the place of the DM's insight into game balance, however, so some spells will simply be ruled impossible to have as permanent abilities no matter what their cost or level may suggest.
But I'd still just wish for the appropriate magic item if I were you.
Jim
I'm not far enough into 3e to really make the call, but wouldn't it be far easier and safer to wish for a magic item that gave your PC the desired ability (as long as they wore it)? I mean, isn't a ring of regeneration a better idea? Or do you fear losing the ring? You could just as well lose a permanent ability through high level dispel magics or death or some such, and all that cost will eventually die with you, but a ring goes on (unless destroyed, naturally), perhaps even being a family heirloom or part of your PC's family wealth. You don't want to toss it all away when you die, do you?
For my own tastes, I often use economics to help decide such things, if the world's economics are well considered. So if there is some sort of way to buy a Wish for X GP, you can virtually wish for anything you could buy that cost X GP or less, or Wish for anything that duplicated a lesser or equal spell.
To make a normally ephemeral spell effect permanent, however, you'd have to include permanency as part of the spell. That is now 5th level. Under the idea combining two spells and adding one is about right, 5+N+1<=9, so you could make permanent any spell of N =3rd level or less using that technique with just a Wish. Higher level spells are perhaps possible using an actual Permanency spell as well, but since that spell outlines which spells work already, there is good reason to believe spells not on that short list have extra problems.
No general rule will be able to take the place of the DM's insight into game balance, however, so some spells will simply be ruled impossible to have as permanent abilities no matter what their cost or level may suggest.
But I'd still just wish for the appropriate magic item if I were you.
Jim
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Magic is a funny thing....
Magic is a funny thing... if you look at the "history" of magic in any of the settings, there are MANY samples of spells going awry, of magics not working like their casters intended and other unusual side effects. I agree that normally Spell Resistance doesn't affect the caster's spells, but when you raise spell resistance to heretold unknown levels for a creature that isn't meant to have those levels of resistance... unusual things can happen. I see the spell resistance at times 'overflowing' from the caster, since he has so much from the extreme magics he has called upon and places on his body. I don't see that unreasonable at all. Especially since what makes an interesting gaming experience is creativity, and not all things work according to the rules.
Magic is a funny thing... if you look at the "history" of magic in any of the settings, there are MANY samples of spells going awry, of magics not working like their casters intended and other unusual side effects. I agree that normally Spell Resistance doesn't affect the caster's spells, but when you raise spell resistance to heretold unknown levels for a creature that isn't meant to have those levels of resistance... unusual things can happen. I see the spell resistance at times 'overflowing' from the caster, since he has so much from the extreme magics he has called upon and places on his body. I don't see that unreasonable at all. Especially since what makes an interesting gaming experience is creativity, and not all things work according to the rules
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kreynolds
First Post
Re: Magic is a funny thing....
Good point. But I see this as a DM who is running a great risk of pissing off a player that spent a whole lot of time and money to get SR just because the DM wants to try something "fresh". Hey, the player may not mind and might actually think it's kinda cool. But seriously, what are the odds of that?
Arravis said:Magic is a funny thing... if you look at the "history" of magic in any of the settings, there are MANY samples of spells going awry, of magics not working like their casters intended and other unusual side effects. I agree that normally Spell Resistance doesn't affect the caster's spells, but when you raise spell resistance to heretold unknown levels for a creature that isn't meant to have those levels of resistance... unusual things can happen. I see the spell resistance at times 'overflowing' from the caster, since he has so much from the extreme magics he has called upon and places on his body. I don't see that unreasonable at all. Especially since what makes an interesting gaming experience is creativity, and not all things work according to the rules
Good point. But I see this as a DM who is running a great risk of pissing off a player that spent a whole lot of time and money to get SR just because the DM wants to try something "fresh". Hey, the player may not mind and might actually think it's kinda cool. But seriously, what are the odds of that?
Artoomis
First Post
Re: Re: Magic is a funny thing....
Ya makes a wish, ya takes yer chances.
Free advice: check with the DM first - maybe he'll tell you what's reasoinable and whats not.
That's the way it is whan you go outside the base parameters of what the spell allows.
For DM advice: only grant racial bonuses via wish if:
You really want to allow it,
You think it's a really great idea,
You pack it full of a serious down-side,
and/or
You are out of your mind.
kreynolds said:
Ya makes a wish, ya takes yer chances.
Free advice: check with the DM first - maybe he'll tell you what's reasoinable and whats not.
That's the way it is whan you go outside the base parameters of what the spell allows.
For DM advice: only grant racial bonuses via wish if:
You really want to allow it,
You think it's a really great idea,
You pack it full of a serious down-side,
and/or
You are out of your mind.
Darklone
Registered User
Ahihihii be careful what you wish for...
Hmmm.... Wishes. Wonderful. Endless possibilities...
A player wishing for regeneration could as well find himself sitting in a extraplanar bar next to a devil with a contract for an infernal pact (similar to AEG EVIL enhancement book) that grants him regeneration... Sign here please. Yes, three crosses with blood are sufficient. And yes, you are allowed to read the 666 pages contract first. (Players: Watch out for the devilishly small written extras! Most people think that's actually a spot on the page... )
Well then. Last wish I heard of that worked without severe penalties for the players included a 6 pages description of the words...
Hmmm.... Wishes. Wonderful. Endless possibilities...
A player wishing for regeneration could as well find himself sitting in a extraplanar bar next to a devil with a contract for an infernal pact (similar to AEG EVIL enhancement book) that grants him regeneration... Sign here please. Yes, three crosses with blood are sufficient. And yes, you are allowed to read the 666 pages contract first. (Players: Watch out for the devilishly small written extras! Most people think that's actually a spot on the page... )
Well then. Last wish I heard of that worked without severe penalties for the players included a 6 pages description of the words...
Artoomis
First Post
Darklone reminded me of my base policy towards wishes (for what it's worth).
Any reasonable request: granted.
Any ludicrous request: denied completely.
Anything in-between, granted with a twist. And no, it's NOT possible to phrase a wish in such a way as to avoid all bad effects, though you CAN phrase it in such a way as to encourage bad effects.
Any reasonable request: granted.
Any ludicrous request: denied completely.
Anything in-between, granted with a twist. And no, it's NOT possible to phrase a wish in such a way as to avoid all bad effects, though you CAN phrase it in such a way as to encourage bad effects.
