Wishlist do 5 ed

[Ale]

I have some ideas that might work, but I wanna know your opinion

1) Reduce the level cap to 15. Actually, the campaings rarely reach the 20, the 30 ia quite impossible. It would take about 4 years. So, if level cap is 15, people can reach the end game. Plus, DM can use more monsters per level (total dividid per 15, not 30)

2) System Math do not depend of feats to be correct. Perhaps can remove the feats and replace by class features to choose

3) reduce number of class, based in concept. For example, "specialist" could englobe rogue, bard, assassin. You choose a Major Class feature from Sneak Attack, Bardic Song, Assassins poison use, etc. If possible, the people can do anyrhing like "dual specialization" of wow, so character can have 2 different roles

4) avoid stacks. Thats the principles of overpower. Special attention to itens

5) magic itens do not be part of system math, so they can be uncommon and rare and do cool things, not +2 to attack rolls

6) character themes be part of character creation. So it gives bonuses to some skills, bonuses to interact with some organizations, skill related and "class" features. So we can create a "devoted fighter", "wizard spy", etc

7) recall the spell levels and old spell system. Lots of spells in 4 e looks like an normal attack.

8) thats an dificult idea. What about put the campaing scenarios together (like an continent Khorvaire and other Faerun in the same world with modifications to not be redundanct and have interactions) and this "final setting" become the oficial setting. So the products can be boxes of parts of scenarios including maps, miniatures, desceriptions, cards, adventures. For example: Five nation box can have deitaled descriptions of places, miniatures of kings shield, royal eyes, paladins of thrane, etc, maps

9) someway to TPK do not end the characters (and perhaps the campaing). So players will feel tense in combats and not "know" that in the end the DM will miss attacks or use poor tactics to avoid TPK if the characters is good (good BG, important to storyline). Today a tpk can ruin a campaing

10) good gametesting with criterious itens

 

[Infiniti2000]

2, 3, 4, 5, 6 are okay.

1 doesn't really affect me much, but it will never happen. I actually would envision MORE levels.

7 absolutely not, terrible idea. Good riddance.

8 I don't understand your suggestion, but I'm thinking it doesn't really matter. You'll get what they publish for settings and like it.

9 Totally disagree. TPK doesn't ruin a campaign. The DM and/or players might, but the results of actions in themselves don't ruin a campaign.

10 Agreed, though theoretically this was done before. However, with Monte Cook in the mix you can rest assured he'll impose good testing. He's a strong proponent of testing.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

"To englobe" has now officially replaced "willy-nilly" as may favourite English phrase.
[/off-topic]

 

[Ale]

Hehehe. My language is portuguese. I really try to write good but sometimes I fail.. Hehehe

 

[Aratargul]

It will be great if they create rules to create items and powers like if you wanna make stun attack you can only do 1 W damage, or a controller attack with dazed effect max damage 2d6. And a weapon with acid property and a encounter acid attack you will need a black dragon acid gland, or a weapon with dominated effect you will need a aboleth brain, something like that it will be aweasome.

 

[the Jester]

I have some ideas that might work, but I wanna know your opinion

1) Reduce the level cap to 15. Actually, the campaings rarely reach the 20, the 30 ia quite impossible. It would take about 4 years. So, if level cap is 15, people can reach the end game. Plus, DM can use more monsters per level (total dividid per 15, not 30)

I disagree. No version of D&D has been so level-limited. I don't see this improving anything. I do think the game should roll back advancement speed, though.

2) System Math do not depend of feats to be correct. Perhaps can remove the feats and replace by class features to choose

I agree.

3) reduce number of class, based in concept. For example, "specialist" could englobe rogue, bard, assassin. You choose a Major Class feature from Sneak Attack, Bardic Song, Assassins poison use, etc. If possible, the people can do anyrhing like "dual specialization" of wow, so character can have 2 different roles

Why is reducing the number of classes necessarily a good thing? I am ambivalent about this; in my homebrewed D&D version, for instance, there are four base classes, but innumerable prestige classes.

4) avoid stacks. Thats the principles of overpower. Special attention to itens

I disagree. The problem with stacking rules is that there are too many bonuses and they get too big. Rather than eliminating stacking, I'd go the opposite direction- everything stacks except with itself- and just pay attention to possible crazy combos.

5) magic itens do not be part of system math, so they can be uncommon and rare and do cool things, not +2 to attack rolls

Agreed. Moreover, I'll say it: a 30th level party should be functional with NO magic items. They should be enhanced by good gear, not crippled without it.

6) character themes be part of character creation. So it gives bonuses to some skills, bonuses to interact with some organizations, skill related and "class" features. So we can create a "devoted fighter", "wizard spy", etc

I like this, but not enough to be disappointed if themes are left out of the game. If they are in at all, though, they need to be put in from day 1, and not introduced as a piece of power creep later.

7) recall the spell levels and old spell system. Lots of spells in 4 e looks like an normal attack.

Meh. Good riddance to Vancian magic.

8) thats an dificult idea. What about put the campaing scenarios together (like an continent Khorvaire and other Faerun in the same world with modifications to not be redundanct and have interactions) and this "final setting" become the oficial setting. So the products can be boxes of parts of scenarios including maps, miniatures, desceriptions, cards, adventures. For example: Five nation box can have deitaled descriptions of places, miniatures of kings shield, royal eyes, paladins of thrane, etc, maps

Oh HELL no. Keep your Krynn out of my Greyhawk. There is absolutely nothing about this idea that I like and absolutely everything about it that I hate.

9) someway to TPK do not end the characters (and perhaps the campaing). So players will feel tense in combats and not "know" that in the end the DM will miss attacks or use poor tactics to avoid TPK if the characters is good (good BG, important to storyline). Today a tpk can ruin a campaing

If you want to play a game where pc death doesn't matter, play a game where the pcs don't die. TPKs don't ruin campaigns, whiny players that can't accept the consequences of their actions (up to a TPK) and crappy dms that don't run enjoyable games do.

10) good gametesting with criterious itens

Of course!

 

[Umbran]

Moved his thread to General, as it isn't about an existing edition.

I'll give a warning now - anyone who wants to try to turn this into an edition war can just stop posting to EN World for three days voluntarily, as that's what's going to happen if you go that route.

 

[CAFRedblade]

"4) avoid stacks. That's the principles of overpower. Special attention to items"
Gratuitous stacking does need to be handled, not sure if removing all stacking would be the solution, but it perhaps needs to remain no more than 5 differing categories, preferably 3 from my perspective. The best bonus/adjustment stacks with the adjacent categories bonus/adjustment.



"3) reduce number of class, based in concept. For example, "specialist" could englobe rogue, bard, assassin. You choose a Major Class feature from Sneak Attack, Bardic Song, Assassins poison use, etc. If possible, the people can do anyrhing like "dual specialization" of wow, so character can have 2 different roles
6) character themes be part of character creation. So it gives bonuses to some skills, bonuses to interact with some organizations, skill related and "class" features. So we can create a "devoted fighter", "wizard spy", etc"


I wouldn't mind a little more custom options on the player side like that. 4th ed sort of does it, even more so with the essentials. But the above would mean you would be one step away from simply piecemeal building your class based on differing characteristics/options. (which some rule sets do a fine job of) But DND needs a little more definition in that respect.
I do like the idea of a more built in Theme/Specialization system for the classes.

"7) recall the spell levels and old spell system. Lots of spells in 4 e looks like an normal attack."

I think more non-combat utility spells need to be provided, but that 4th does a decent job of balancing pure combat spells now. (was a little weak at the start)

And please keep the differing Realms apart. Continue to flesh out the 4th Default Realm, give it a proper name, and through out more details that have appeared since 4th ed began. ( some of this in the Nerath Board game) It's a decent world, but mix-matching the current campaign worlds would destroy each and every one of them. And besides, jumping from world to world is one possibility for high level play if you want to do it.

Just my two cents.
Should have used the multi-quote.. doh.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Without completely reverting to 1e/2e a few things I would like to see.

1) Vancian Magic - 4e killed magic for me, or moreover made it less magic and more like everybody has magic. Not what I want in a system. However it doesn't have to be PURE Vancian, level based spells and spell points or power or whatnot is totally acceptable.

2) Class advancement relative to power increase. Lot's of people complain that fighters are less powerful than magic-users at higher levels and then gripe that the old 1e/2e method of differential experience levels was unfair. Just the opposite. It took forever to level-up as a mage because of the "phenomenal cosmic powers" you inherited.

3) Feats for Fighting classes only. No this isn't an attempt to "even" up the power difference between Fighters and Magic-Users/Clerics, but an attempt to remove the "Cookie cutter Fighter". Feats would be geared to different ability scores so that a fighter with a 17 Int and 6 Str would be just as viable as a fighter with 17 Str and 6 Int.

4) Make the Paladin a Fighting Priest and the Cleric a Magic Priest. Same HP, Armor, Saves, etc but Paladins have access skills and powers and Clerics have access to spells.

5) Bring in optional "Social Status" rules that include starting money, equipment availability, retainer availability and possible arch-nemeses from low levels.

6) The concept of "rising to the top of the cream" in level advancement. 1st level is commoner with some training, 9th level is a skilled professional, beyond that is where legends are born.

7) Make it non-world specific. The last Core Rules made the monetary system, equipment and the concepts of 'Feywild' and such very tied to the "points of light" and then forced the system to have to be re-worked in order to rid it of such influence (which was a pain in the butt.) Likewise 3rd edition made "Greyhawk" the primary world and put the deities and such in the Core rules. No other previous edition had done that and I think D&D has suffered a bit for it. Basic game concepts only. Campaign specific details should be limited to campaign guides.

8) 'Realistic' Artwork. Fantasy artwork is very much flavor of the month. There are, however, generic "truisms (for lack of a better word)" that should follow any generic system. Humans look like humans, elves are slender-ish, dwarves are smaller than humans, etc, however there doesn't need to be a limiting definition to them. The crappy fantasy armor that was created for 3rd/4th edition often left very little in the way historical accuracy and limited the imagination in some aspects to those who had never done any research.

9) Research - a list of books, references and articles that are listed in the Core Rules books to further guide and or inspire younger or novice players.

10) Ritual magic! 4e stumbled on a few things but they hit this one out of the park. For the first time rituals were able to be collected and performed without limiting spell/ability selection or affecting session play unless they were specifically needed. That being said there are certain spells that were included that should not be in the ritual list - "immediate" detection spells. For example Detect Magic, etc, should be available for instantaneous casting, however the scope of their power should be severely limited - is something magical, yes or no. Relative power, number/type of spells present, specific identification etc should be ritualistic. Spells that "find" something like a secret door could go either way - instantaneous "find/detect" spells should be limited in duration and power by level.

11) Saving throws - they are good but I don't think they've found the "perfect" system yet. Ability based Saves cause some abilities to be "better" than others while vague category Saves are just that - vague. There is a happy medium somewhere, I just don't know what it is yet.

12) Simplify, Simplify, Simplify! If I want options, I pay for them, ie splats. Don't try to invent the "pen-ultimate" system, it only leaves you with nowhere to go. Lower the cost of the initial outlay and buck the trend of beefy, large, voluminous tomes and strip it down to the basics. It increases revenue over the long term and makes it more accessible right off the bat, something that the game has been missing for quite some time.

13) Give the DMG world building tools and the knowledge of rule that players DON'T have access to. The DM used to be a seat of power in the universe, one where the rules and the world were created by those who knew how to use them - 2e started changing that and 3e/4e took it away entirely in small bite sized chunks. The DM is not a god, but they should be able to play one on TV. DMs shouldn't need characters to play, they should be too busy with NPCs, deities and other world altering decisions. Who cares about Marvin the Mary Sue Magician. there are bigger things to worry about, like the looming war on the southern horizon and who's really buried in Grant's Tomb?


Other stuff for consideration:

A simple PHB, DMG and MM for the core with the first set of releases being a campaign guide, a campaign monster guide and a player class/race expansion book or two. Maybe a guide for practical campaign design or officiating. Make the tools GOOD so that people want to purchases them not feel that have to purchase them. Lose the 5 books a quarter schedule that has you running out of ideas in year 4. Slow down production and give quality over quantity. Improve the accessories and make them the "seasonal" items, not rule books. 1e and 2e survived for many years before the "new book" creep started to destroy them. Give the players what they NEED not what the want out of the gate and then give them their wants over the next ten years or so. The company is secure, growth is assured and expansion into the mainstream is only a K-mart/Target or Wal-Mart away.

Also, have Hasbro market a board game version that can be like a gateway drug (Like the old DUNGEONS! game.) to the system. It doesn't include system rules, but it does include system tropes that will turn the appeal of D&D in to a mass market item instead of a niche market item.

Also, support other companies in the industry by selling incensing for certain "accessory items" like minis, dice and such to third party companies. It fixes some of the OGL backlash of 4e while keeping the OGL "glut" of 3e down to minimalist proportions. Ral Partha, Judges Guild, Citadel, all bore the "Official Accessory Product of D&D" seal at one time, they pay for the rights, you limit the access to them and everyone makes money and more importantly, the GAMERS ARE HAPPY!!! Don't branch into "official" items like toys, comic books, TV shows and such. Limit your brand to QUALITY products and you will find that this might very well be the FINAL definitive edition of D&D, not just the latest.

 

[kitsune9]

1. Nah, I like it going to level 20 or higher. My campaigns hit the level limits.

2. I can see feats going away for internal class options.

3. I like classes. Lots of them. But that's just me.

4. I like stacking too.

5. I like the idea of magic items doing something other providing a +2 to hit or increase one's AC and so on. Also if magic items are to be rare and wondrous, we need to remove the economy of them out of the system. You can't buy them or sell them. I wouldn't favor this part myself.

6. Interesting.

7. I play Pathfinder so I have this already.

8. Not sure to make of this.

9. This gets into the discussion of how to punish the player for failure and risk. The most direct way is the character dies. If we remove character death and the subsequent TPK, then what's the price for failure? What's the risk then? How do we make the game just as tense or interesting if we eliminate character death? I can't think of an alternative, but I know there's been discussion on it.

10. Playtesting is a must for any game I think.