D&D 5E Wizard Evoker Overchannel - Most Powerful Combo

[BigBadDM]

Builds are funny, you find little things and for a second it is whoa--really.
So I came across Chromatic Orb--yes that spell every guide books says not to take. Once you reach 14th level, if you overchannel this bad boy as a 5th level spell you are pumping out 60 damage (7d8+4int).

Let's take the negative:
Attack Roll to Hit

Let's look at the positives:
1/20 change to critical (116 points of damage)
Can change type to something like Thunder dmg so rarely resisted
No Save, pure 60 damage if it hits
Legendary Resistance does not apply

How to mitigate the 1 negative:
Gaining Advantage to increase chance to hit
Lucky Feat (arguably giving you auto-hit)

How does it compare:
Disintegrate - Does more damage (75ish), though is a six level. Has a Save to reduce damage to none.
Scorching Ray (everyone's pet favorite) - 58 damage, but requires more rolls to hit making damage lower. No save.

So my question to you? Is Chromatic Orb the most damaging single target spell an Evoker can know? Granted this is at 14th level when overchannel comes into play. There are a lot of 'this-and-that' but from a build standpoint, I can't see something that would top it.

 

[neogod22]

It's a pretty versatile spell, yes. Should you take it? That's up to you. Is it worth casting at 5th level, again up to you. You should be able to hit most targets with it since your plus to hit should be between 10-12 at that point. Are you going to ever do 60 damage? Probably not, bit it is a nice thought. I think the reason people don't use it more according to your sources, is because you're putting your eggs in 1 basket. If you miss, you just blew a 5th level slot. Spell DCs should be pretty high at that point, so a save is a safer choice. Also, if they make a save, they usually still take some damage. At 5th level, flamestrike has a higher damage potential.

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[BigBadDM]

Did you read what I wrote?
Overchannel does causes full damage, so yes it would always do 60 damage on a hit.
If you have lucky feat, would you miss? Doubt it.

Why is a save a safer choice? People say that but it is really not true in play. Sometimes it is, sometimes an attack roll is better.

Also Flamestrike is not a wizard spell. Doubt overchannel would ever fit into a build?

 

[neogod22]

Even if you have advantage and lucky, you can miss, I've seen it happen. I never said don't do it. You asked why people don't use it, and I answered, because a save spell is guaranteed damage, where this you have a chance to miss.

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[neogod22]

Idk why people get sensitive on these forums.

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[BigBadDM]

No worries. I am not saying I don't care for the reply; just I said it does 60 damage and you said not likely which isn't true in this case.

But here is the question rephrased.

Is there an Overchanneled Spell a 14th Level Evoker that can cast that does more damage than Chromatic Orb (cast in the 5th level spot?).

I still don't get a save is guaranteed damage. A failed save for disintegrate does zero damage and people still love that spell. At least with the lucky feat I can give myself a 80% chance to hit something at AC20 and do 60 damage.

I guess in the end of the day, I am missing your point for a 14th level evoker using Chromatic Orb Overchanneled and how it is inferior. I am up for understanding.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Why is a save a safer choice? People say that but it is really not true in play. Sometimes it is, sometimes an attack roll is better.

Attack rolls automatically miss on a 1, but saves do not automatically succeed on a 20. If you choose the right spell that targets the right save, you can guarantee it will land.

 

[neogod22]

Ok if I were a wizard and was going to overcharge a spell, it would probably be cloud kill. It's an AOE that lasts 10mins. There's nothing in the description that it had to be a spell that only does damage once. You get creatures trapped in an area and they will take 40 or 20 every round until they die.

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[BigBadDM]

Attack rolls automatically miss on a 1, but saves do not automatically succeed on a 20. If you choose the right spell that targets the right save, you can guarantee it will land.

While this is all true, it does not seem to negate my point. I tried to put all the stipulations in the first post (lucky feat, overchannel, max damage question, etc). So if I had the lucky feat would I likely roll a 1 on an attack roll? Wouldn't I get about an 18% chance to crit with the Lucky feat causing 116 damage? Would I get through Legendary resistance with a save spell?

What do you think is the best use of overchannel for an Evoker? Fireball (60 damage save for half?)

I am not saying Chromatic Orb is the best spell ever... Yes, there is a spell for everything. I am saying what does everyone think is the best Overchannel spell? Questions here seem to go sideways, oh well.

(Incidentally, I play a halfing wizard/diviner. So I actually never have an attack roll of 1. It was actually my character that made me think of this as I had two portent rolls of 20, which means I could cast my Chromatic Orb as a auto critical hit doing 10d8 in a 4th level slot--it lead me to thinking about Overchannel.

 

[neogod22]

An overcharged fireball at 5th lvl also does 60 damage and hits Moe targets

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