Wizard/Sorcerer Parent Class

[alkabong]

Greetings, all.

One of my hopes for 3rd edition was for an allowance for spontaneous arcane casters. Although the sorcerer fits the bill, I was dissapointed with the fact that you could prepare spells, or you could spontaneously cast them, but not both.

I made this class, the Mage, with feedback from other DMs and players(special thanks to Ubermeister Kev-guy), and thought I would post this here in the hopes of some feedback. I'm mostly concerned with allowing for flexibility in the classes, but in a balanced manner so that mages aren't overpowered with respect to the other classes, including sorcerer and wizard.

I balanced the mage class against the sorcerer and wizard by first ensuring that you could "build" a classic sorcerer or wizard using different feat paths for each class. Crossing over to the other class requires the expenditure of two or more feats, basically at the expense of item creation and metamagic feats. Additionally, being good at both preparing spells and spontaneously casting them requires both a high Intelligence and a high Charisma.

Also, if anyone else has done something along these lines (I haven't seen many yet), any links would be appreciated.

Mage
The mage is a flexible spellcasting class that is able to prepare arcane spells like a wizard and spontaneously cast arcane spells like a sorcerer or bard.

Abilities: Intelligence is used to determine how powerful a prepared spell the Mage can cast, how many bonus spells they can prepare, and how hard prepared spells are to resist. Charisma is used to determine how powerful a spontaneous spell the Mage can cast, how many bonus spells they can spontaneously cast, and how hard spontaneously cast spells are to resist. To cast a prepared spell, a mage must have an Intelligence score of 10 + the spell’s level. To spontaneously cast a mastered spell, a mage must have a Charisma score of 10 + the spell’s level. Like a wizard or sorcerer, a mage benefits from high Dexterity and Constitution scores.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d4.

Class Skills
The mage’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (All Skills Taken Individually)(Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter 4 of the Player’s Handbook for more information.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) X 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier

Class Features

Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save RefSave WillSave Special
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 3 Arcane Bonus Feats, Call Familiar
2 +1 +0 +0 +3
3 +1 +1 +1 +3
4 +2 +1 +1 +4
5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Arcane Bonus Feat
6 +3 +2 +2 +5
7 +3 +2 +2 +5
8 +4 +2 +2 +6
9 +4 +3 +3 +6
10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Arcane Bonus Feat
11 +5 +3 +3 +7
12 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8
13 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8
14 +7/+2 +4 +4 +9
15 +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Arcane Bonus Feat
16 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10
17 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10
18 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11
19 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11
20 +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Arcane Bonus Feat

Game Rule Information
First level mages start with three arcane bonus feats. At least one of these must be either Arcane Preparation or Spontaneous Casting. If a mage selects the Arcane Preparation feat, it is important to also choose Arcane Transcription so that the mage can add new spells to his spellbook and prepare spells from his spellbook. If a mage selects the Spontaneous Casting feat, it is important to master at least some spells using the Arcane Mastery feat. By spending more feats, it is also possible to mix and match to create a character that prepares spells and uses a spell book, but can also spontaneously cast some mastered spells.

If your character has both Arcane Preparation and Spontaneous Casting, you gain a number of spells/day from both Table 3-18: The Wizard and Table 3-16: The Sorcerer. You determine the number of spells per day for each spell level separately, by choosing the larger number from each table, using your mage level as wizard level or sorcerer level respectively. Remember to include your Intelligence bonus for Table 3-18: The Wizard and your Charisma bonus for Table 3-16: The Sorcerer. Each morning, you decide how many spells slots are free and how many are filled with a prepared spell. Your number of spells per day from Table 3-18: The Wizard, modified for your Intelligence bonus, is the maximum number of spell slots that you can fill with a prepared spell. Your number of spells per day from Table 3-16: The Sorcerer, modified for your Charisma bonus, is the maximum number of spell slots that you can mark as free.

Sorcerers are mages who begin by taking the bonus feats Spell Mastery 0 & 1, Spell Mastery 2 & 3, and Spontaneous Caster. At 5th level, sorcerers gain Spell Mastery 4 & 5. At 10th level, sorcerers gain Spell Mastery 6 & 7. At 15th level, sorcerers gain Spell Mastery 8 & 9.

Wizards are mages who begin by taking the bonus feats Arcane Preparation, Arcane Transcription, and Scribe Scroll. They gain arcane bonus feats at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level.

New Feats
SPONTANEOUS CASTING [Metamagic]
You may mark a number of spell slots as free, from which you can cast any spell that you have mastered.
Prerequisite: You must have taken the metamagic feat Spell Mastery at least once before you can take this feat.
Benefit: You gain access to a number of spells per day according to Table 3-16: The Sorcerer in the Player’s Handbook, using your level as Mage for sorcerer level. A character with a high Charisma may receive bonus spells – see Table 1-1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells in the Player’s Handbook. These spell slots can be left free. Any spells that you have mastered can be cast from a free slot of the same or higher level. You need a Charisma score of 10 + the spell’s level in order to spontaneously cast a spell. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a mage’s spontaneously cast spell is 10 + the spell level + the mage’s Charisma modifier.

IMPROVED SPONTANEOUS CASTING [Metamagic]
You can cast a mastered spell by using a spell slot containing a prepared spell.
Prerequisite: Spontaneous Casting, Caster Level 5th, Int 13, Cha 13
Benefit: You can use a spell slot containing a prepared spell that has not been cast, in order to cast a spell that you have mastered. You must use a spell slot that is equal to or is a higher level than the mastered spell.

ARCANE PREPARATION [Metamagic]
You can prepare an arcane spell ahead of time.
Prerequisite: You must be able to cast arcane spells as a mage or sorcerer before you can select this feat.
Benefit: Each day, you are able to prepare a number of spells per day according to Table 3-18: The Wizard in the Player’s Handbook, using your level as mage for wizard level. A character with a high Intelligence may receive bonus spells – see Table 1-1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells in the Player’s Handbook. This also allows you to prepare a spell with a metamagic feat ahead of time, casting it as a standard action. If you have the Arcane Transcription feat, you may prepare spells from a spellbook as a wizard would. If you have the Spell Mastery feat, you may prepare any spell that you have mastered. You use a spell slot equal to or higher than the level of the spell (modified by any metamagic feats). You need an Intelligence score of 10 + the spell’s level in order to cast a prepared spell. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a mage’s prepared spell is 10 + the spell level + the mage’s Intelligence modifier.

SPELL MASTERY [Metamagic]
You can master a certain number of arcane spells, which allows you to prepare or spontaneously cast them without a spell book.
Prerequisite: You must be able to cast arcane spells as a mage.
Benefit: You can use two columns from Table 3-17 (Sorcerer Spells Known) on page 49 of the Player’s Handbook to determine the number of spells that you have mastered, using your level as mage for sorcerer level.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. It’s effects do not stack - each time that you take this feat, it allows you to master spells from two additional spell levels that you have not already selected.
Normal: All arcane spellcasters automatically master the Read Magic cantrip.

ARCANE TRANSCRIPTION [Metamagic]
You can record spells in a spell book, which allows you to record spells that you may not have mastered and prepare them.
Prerequisite: You must have the arcane bonus feat Arcane Preparation before you can take this feat.
Benefit: You can add new spells to spell books and prepare spells from your spellbook. Additionally, the cost of scribing a scroll decreases; you use the Wizard column in Table 8-43 and 8-44 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide to determine scroll base cost.
Normal: Mages use the Sorcerer column in Tables 8-43 and 8-44 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide to determine scroll base cost.

 

[pyk]

Greetings, all.

One of my hopes for 3rd edition was for an allowance for spontaneous arcane casters. Although the sorcerer fits the bill, I was dissapointed with the fact that you could prepare spells, or you could spontaneously cast them, but not both.

<Snip>

I don't see anything here preventing someone from gaining all your new feats and then being a combination Wiz20/Sor20 at 20th level. If this is what you want...

But it would never see the light of day in my games. If you really want to be able to combine the two, just take levels of Wizard and Sorcerer.

Or, simply create a feat that can apply to Wizards allowing them to cast some of their spells spontaneously, or a Sorcerer allowing them to prepare some of their spells ahead of time.

What you have here is a Mage that is able to cast as many spells as both Wizard and Sorcerer combined. Making it so that being able to take only Wizard or Sorcerer feats might be better, but again just becomes a multiclass Sor/Wiz.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

I don't see anything here preventing someone from gaining all your new feats and then being a combination Wiz20/Sor20 at 20th level. If this is what you want...

...

What you have here is a Mage that is able to cast as many spells as both Wizard and Sorcerer combined. Making it so that being able to take only Wizard or Sorcerer feats might be better, but again just becomes a multiclass Sor/Wiz.

I'm sorry but I must strongly disagree with your evaluation of the 'mage' class.

And not just because I've been researching and re-designing for my own mage class over the past weeks and this one happens to emulate what I had reached.

First of all, it does allow a combo Wiz20/Sor20 as a Mage 20 - but that's what is desired - but it does not allow someone to cast as many spells a wizard AND sorc combined. If, at 20th level, a sorc can cast 6 level 1 spells in one day, and a wizard 4, you seem to perceive that a mage can cast 10. I must ask how you got to that conclusion. The 'mage' class specified the higher value from the two tables, not the addition of the value. Thus the 20th level mage would only be able to cast 6 spells.

Now, if he's taken the feat path of spontaneous casting - he can cast those 6 as though he were a sorceror - provided he has spell mastery. Or, if he's taken the feat path of arcane preparations, he can prepare them ahead of time and cast them like a wizard.

Or he can mix and match. Mayb spontaneous casting level 1 (levels 0-2, i presume) followed by arcane preparation for casting levels 3-5.


In my personal opinion, there are problems here - but nothing more than just a personal gripe that mages don't have enough feat gains over the levels as they should. A 'mage' class character would have even fewer feats for taking metamagic feats than a regular sorc/wiz would.

And don't even get me started on the old 'just multiclass sorc/wiz' issue. That's a losing arguement for any character that tries it. Sacrifice higher level spells, higher save DC's, higher caster level checks, extra damage, and extra nifty abilities just to be able to spontaneously cast the lower level spells??? Why would anyone engaged in a long term campaign do so? The generalist should equal or exceed the specialist, but even WOTC has acknowledged a problem here. The creation of a mage class addresses that problem as well as the desire for a character to spontaneously cast or cast prepared spells.

I think I'll go dig up my own mage class and post it in here and see what the originator of this thread thinks of it.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

I hate fubar'ing posts

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

'specially when I double post the fubar'd post

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

I went and reviewed my mage class and remembered that it was run off spell points and I didn't like it. The class above emulates it extremely closely however, and I think I'll just use that with a few minor adjustments to incorporate the concepts that I want to use.

First, I disagree that a mage should always be able to automatically cast their spell. There should always be a minor chance of failure, or else you run into mad mages who cast a single spell 2-4 times in one round - a spell that can never miss?

Second, A mage should be able to cast above her normal spells per day limit at the sacrifice of life energy - either HP or XP.

Third, A mage should be able to under or overpower a spell at will - though overpowering it should also carry a painful cost.

Evil mages should be able to use others life forces to fuel spells

Finally, a mage might should be able to use her magical prowess to defend herself against spells - i.e. raise her saves vs spell effects at the cost of being able to cast spells.

 

[pyk]

If your character has both Arcane Preparation and Spontaneous Casting, you gain a number of spells/day from both Table 3-18: The Wizard and Table 3-16: The Sorcerer. You determine the number of spells per day for each spell level separately, by choosing the larger number from each table, using your mage level as wizard level or sorcerer level respectively. Remember to include your Intelligence bonus for Table 3-18: The Wizard and your Charisma bonus for Table 3-16: The Sorcerer. Each morning, you decide how many spells slots are free and how many are filled with a prepared spell. Your number of spells per day from Table 3-18: The Wizard, modified for your Intelligence bonus, is the maximum number of spell slots that you can fill with a prepared spell. Your number of spells per day from Table 3-16: The Sorcerer, modified for your Charisma bonus, is the maximum number of spell slots that you can mark as free.

By determining the number of spells per day seperately this indicates the total number of spells per day are added together. IE if a first level human mage has all those nifty new feats listed at the bottom, then they get to add in the spells per day of a Sorcerer and spells per day of a Wizard. If the spells do not add together, then one does not determine the amounts seperately. Of course, this can also be read to mean that if one can cast 6 Sorc spells from table 3-16, and 4 spells from table 3-18, and taking the larger of the two, then prepared spells are 6 and spontaneous spells are 6 for a total of 12.

Example: 1st level human mage
Feats: SPONTANEOUS CASTING, ARCANE PREPARATION, SPELL MASTERY, ARCANE TRANSCRIPTION
Spells per day: Wiz 3/1, Sorc 5/3: Total of 8/4.



If the whole idea of a Wiz spontaneous casting some spells is needed by a select few individuals, then another way is to simply create a feat or three that allows a Wiz to spontaneously cast certain spells (IE fireball, magic missile), equal to his (CHA+bonus)/2, each spontaneous spell cast requiring two spell slots taken.

Ditto the Sorcerer who wishes to cast certain spells by preparing them ahead of time, a feat that allows him to carry around a spell book and cast some spells prepared beforehand, all at a slightly increased price from what the Wizard does (150% payment per page), each preapred spell requiring two slots taken.

Allowing a class that can emulate both the Sorc and Wiz at any level would become far too powerful. This is why the two classes are seperated.

The generalist should equal or exceed the specialist

Never, does the generalist equal or exceed the specialist. If this was true, then there would never be a need for specialists, only generalists. A Wizard that is allowed to spontaneously cast some spells, should by no means be able to cast as many as those of a Sorcerer, and the same goes for a Sorc preparing spells. Otherwise, there is no need for a Sorc or a Wiz, just use all Mages. Again, if this is what you want...

 

[alkabong]

By determining the number of spells per day seperately this indicates the total number of spells per day are added together. IE if a first level human mage has all those nifty new feats listed at the bottom, then they get to add in the spells per day of a Sorcerer and spells per day of a Wizard. If the spells do not add together, then one does not determine the amounts seperately. Of course, this can also be read to mean that if one can cast 6 Sorc spells from table 3-16, and 4 spells from table 3-18, and taking the larger of the two, then prepared spells are 6 and spontaneous spells are 6 for a total of 12.

Example: 1st level human mage
Feats: SPONTANEOUS CASTING, ARCANE PREPARATION, SPELL MASTERY, ARCANE TRANSCRIPTION
Spells per day: Wiz 3/1, Sorc 5/3: Total of 8/4.

pyk: I had a hard time expressing myself here - I was using the word "seperately" to represent something that you would do for each spell level - you take the larger number from each chart for each spell level that you are able to cast. I'll try to show this with your example:

Assuming Wizard spells were 3/1 and Sorcerer was 5/3, if your character had all of those nifty feats, then you would get a character who would have 5/3 spells per day. A maximum of 3 cantrips could be prepared in a day and one first level spell could be prepared. A maximum of 5 cantrips and 3 1st level spells slots could be marked as "free". Unless you have the Improved Spontaneous Casting feat, you have to decide which slots are "free" (able to be spontaneously cast like a sorcerer) or "prepared" (can only cast the prepared spell) when you are preparing your spells in the morning.

So you could mark all of your slots as free and basically be a straight sorcerer for that day. Or you could prepare up to three cantrips and a 1st level spell, and leave the remaining slots (2/2) as "free", from which you can cast mastered spells.

- Al

 

[alkabong]

I went and reviewed my mage class and remembered that it was run off spell points and I didn't like it. The class above emulates it extremely closely however, and I think I'll just use that with a few minor adjustments to incorporate the concepts that I want to use.

First, I disagree that a mage should always be able to automatically cast their spell. There should always be a minor chance of failure, or else you run into mad mages who cast a single spell 2-4 times in one round - a spell that can never miss?

Second, A mage should be able to cast above her normal spells per day limit at the sacrifice of life energy - either HP or XP.

Third, A mage should be able to under or overpower a spell at will - though overpowering it should also carry a painful cost.

Evil mages should be able to use others life forces to fuel spells

Finally, a mage might should be able to use her magical prowess to defend herself against spells - i.e. raise her saves vs spell effects at the cost of being able to cast spells.

Tilla, you've definately got some interesting ideas there. Within the context of what I was trying to do (make a parent class for wizard and sorcerer), I think that all of these could be useable modifications to the rules, assuming that both wizards and sorcerers would have to abide by the same restrictions and enhancements as mages would.

I'm not trying to create a new class so much as convert the existing wizard and sorcerer into different variants of the same meta-class.

- Al

 

[pyk]

pyk: I had a hard time expressing myself here - I was using the word "seperately" to represent something that you would do for each spell level - you take the larger number from each chart for each spell level that you are able to cast. I'll try to show this with your example:

Assuming Wizard spells were 3/1 and Sorcerer was 5/3, if your character had all of those nifty feats, then you would get a character who would have 5/3 spells per day. A maximum of 3 cantrips could be prepared in a day and one first level spell could be prepared. A maximum of 5 cantrips and 3 1st level spells slots could be marked as "free". Unless you have the Improved Spontaneous Casting feat, you have to decide which slots are "free" (able to be spontaneously cast like a sorcerer) or "prepared" (can only cast the prepared spell) when you are preparing your spells in the morning.

So you could mark all of your slots as free and basically be a straight sorcerer for that day. Or you could prepare up to three cantrips and a 1st level spell, and leave the remaining slots (2/2) as "free", from which you can cast mastered spells.

- Al

OK, but still what I'm seeing here is a Mage can cast as many spells as a Sorcerer, and still retaining the number of spells of the Wizard.

The Sorcerer takes a hit on the number of spells known, in order to cast many more spells per day.

The Wizard takes a hit on the number of spells cast, in order to have what could be an infinite number of spells known.

Once again, this can be handled much better by feats.

Arcane Spontaneous Casting [Special - Wizard Only]
Allows the Wizard to cast a number of spells spontaneously.
Prerequisite: Wizard level 3+
Benefit: Choose a number of spells in the Wizards spellbook equal to the Wizards INT modifier. These spells are able to be cast spontaneously, with all metamagic abilities as a Sorcerer. These spells disappear from the Wizards spellbook. If a Wizard wishes to prepare them as well, she must re-copy them into the spellbook, at full cost. A spontaneous cast spell uses a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Each time, the caster chooses new spells. The effects do not stack.

Arcane Spell Preperation [Special - Bard & Sorcerer Only]
Allows the Spontaneous Caster to prepare a number of spells for the day, with metamagic feats.
Prerequisite: Caster level 5+
Benefit: The Caster may transcribe into a spell book a number of spells equal to his Spells Known amount, including CHA modifier. These spells may be prepared ahead of time, as a Wizard does. These spells may have metamagic feats used. Each spell prepared this way uses a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Special: This feat can only be taken once. The Sorcerer receives a spellbook at no charge, but must record all spells at full charge.

You'll probably notice it seems more restrictive on the Sorcerer. However, with the amount of spells a Sorcerer can cast and the amount of spells a Wizard can know, there must be a balancing factor between them. Especially when factoring in the effects of metamagic. The Mage class as written simply turns Sorcerers into "uber-Wizards" and would make the game hardly fun for anyone not taking this class. Allowing a Wizard to be able to cast any spell in his spellbook spontaneously would do the same thing.

These feats, however, allow for the Sorcerer who takes this feat to function exactly as any Sorcerer, but to have slight Wizard-like capabilities. And it does the same for Wizards.