Wizard spellbook blues

[Thurbane]

In one of the games I regularly play in, I'm playing my first 3E Wizard (Thurbane the Evoker - a recreation of one of my most beloved 1E/2E characters), and I have to say, Wizards get the royal screwjob, especially at low levels, when it comes to gaining new spells.

I mean, c'mon, 8 HOURS (or is that a day? The description in the Spellcraft table and the section on adding spells to a spellbook seem to contradict each other, even in the Rules Compendium) to see if you know a spell or not? Then a FULL DAY to write the bloody thing into your spellbook? Not to mention the GP costs.

On top of the already oppressive RAW, the DM has houseruled that my 2 automatic spells for gaining a level don't just "appear" in my spellbook, I have to make some form of contact with the Wizards Guild in order to get them. To be fair, he made this houserule before he fully understood how hard it already is for a Wizard to gain spells (this is his first outing at DMing under 3E). He also likes to play the "keep the party poor so they have a reason to keep adventuring" style of game, which in general I don't mind, as it is a nod back to our old 1E days. But it basically means that every spare GP I get can't go anywhere except on spells and materials to scribe them into my book. So while everyone else is loading up on potions and other gear, I'm scrimping and scraping for spell costs. :\

The time factor is the crusher, though. In an adventure where you are "racing the clock", like RHoD, you simply can't afford to plop down for a few days learning and scribing spells. While the fate of the kingdom might rest on stopping the BBEG before he completes a certain ritual or gets his army into place, the poor old Wizard has two options: stick with the 2 free spells he gets per level; or sit down and start studying/scribing, holding himself (and probably the whole party) back from their urgent task.

Does anyone have any tips for me? I really do want to play a Wizard, and not a Sorcerer, Warmage or other class. Any ideas to help with the time (and GP) burden would be much appreciated. ***Note: the game is basically core only, so I'm not sure how much options from non-core books can help me.

Also, which is the correct time period for learning a new spell - 8 hours or 24 hours?

 

[irdeggman]

If you are playing 3.5.

Per the Rules Compendium.

Deciphering a written spell takes 8 hrs.

Then scribing it into a spell book takes 24 hrs.

So if you find a scroll it will take 2 days to transcibe it into your spellbook.

The 2 spells per level take no time at all (but you have that house-rule issue that messes you up).

PHB pg 179

"Note that a wizard does not have to play these costs in time or gold for the spells she gains for free at each new level. She simply adds these to her spellbook as part of her ongoing research."

 

[Doug McCrae]

Metamagic feats can help. For example Empower Spell lets you turn Ray of Enfeeblement into a solid 3rd level spell without using up one of your 2 spells per level.

 

[Mistwell]

Your DM is being pretty harsh. If it's going to be a beat-the-clock adventure, and he is imposing those limits, he is essentially saying "Don't play a wizard, at all". And he should have told you that before the adventure.

I'd say he should let you re-do your character as a sorcerer, or else house-rule the time limits, or work more free time into the adventure. As it stands, you are severely disabled in this adventure for no fault of your own.

 

[Nifft]

Yeah. A poor Wizard is poor indeed. If your DM is reducing wealth, he's nerfing:
- Wizards
- UMD Rogues / Bards / Warlocks
- Druid & Clerics who planned on using Scribe Scroll a lot

There are still lots of great character options -- like Sorcerer, Beguiler, and Psion -- but Wizard is hurt twice. He can't craft, and he can't scribe. Consider playing something else?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Eidalac]

That house rule is nasty. It'd be bad enough even if you had spare time, but if the adventure is time based, it hoses wizards. Aside from changing class, talking to your DM about the unfair nature of this rule - unless other classes have to do something to 'earn' class features gained with levels, it's not right to demand wizards have to. If he insists on keeping his rule, then the only fair thing would be to cut the time/gp cost of scribing spells in general.

Also, IIRC, and it has been a long time since I read up on spellbook rules, wouldn't using Read Magic bypass the 8 hours to decipher a scroll? That would cut the scribing time in half.


Main thing is, the rules for scribing new spells was to let the wizard's books work logically in that they can add new stuff, but to prevent them from getting every spell of a level as soon as they could cast it. Cutting into the spells they get with levels is just overkill.

 

[Thurbane]

I should point out that the adventure we are playing isn't actually all that time based. I should also point out that I really am set on playing a Wizard, becuase that is what Thurbane was, is, and will always be.

He might be coming to the party with the "2 spells per level" rule, though. When he first said I had to make contact with the Wizard's Guild, he (and I, for that matter) didn't realize how badly it would hurt my character. There's a good chance I can convince him to drop this house rule. As for the GP limit, I can't really complain, I knew from the outset the type of game it was going to be. This particular group has traditionally always run games like this, myself included when I DM.

I'm not really looking for people to pat me on the back and tell me what a bad DM I have (for the record, this guy is my all time favorite DM, and we've been friends and gaming together for over 20 years), I'm looking for workarounds for these problems.

 

[Nifft]

Okay. You complain about time in the initial post; is time a problem or not?

For money issues, consider:
1/ Geometer (Complete Arcane); and
2/ Master Specialist (Complete Mage).

Cheers, -- N

 

[kensanata]

In our current RHoD game (where I changed the map to fit the Asian campaign I'm running) it turned out that the party had about two weeks to kill before the big battle in chapter four. Thus, had the wizard needed a few more days here and there, it would have been no problem. My point is that most modules – even if time is a factor – will provide you with enough time to a bit of item creation, spell research, and so on.

As for handling it in-game, I'd make sure as a DM that those days are just skipped. Allow rogues a gather information roll or something at the end. Otherwise you're just being taken out of the game for a few days, which is no fun either.

As for the money, I'd say if your party has the gold to buy potions and other stuff, they obviously have enough to help support you. And if they don't want to, you can offer them the alternative of charging for each spell cast, harr harr. But every party has to figure out how to use their treasure for themselves.

In short, our three core books only Red Hand of Doom game with a wizard in the party did not suffer at all. Red Hand of Doom does not have a lot of treasure, and it has a time limit in-game, and we didn't play with your DM's houserule, but even then you would have had the time and the gold to learn and scribe at least seven spells.

If you're playing a homebrew game and the DM is not giving the party time and money (not his fault if the others are not supporting their Wizard!), ask him whether he's doing that on purpose because you're not enjoying the game as much as you might have if you were able to play a cool Wizard with more spells. He is, after all, in charge.

 

[Storme]

Solution: Be A Wizard of Finance!

Well, I don't know much about the scenario you're running but I can give you some long term ideas.

It is true that the House Rule truly stinks. But, one of the DM's job that people tend to forget is, that he's responsible to make the game as fun for the players as he can (and I believe it's part of the players responsiblity to make sure the DM has fun). In truth, many (sometimes inexperienced) DM's make decisions on things without considering how it will effect the game. If he can see the results are not what he intended, he might have a change of heart.

SO....show him!!!

Show up for the game one week and inform the DM that your character is going to take time off to scribe these two spells into your spell book. Then, hand him your character sheet, stand up, leave the table and sit in a chair in the background while reading a magazine. Then look up and ask him, "Is it okay for me to stay here and watch, or do you want me to leave until next week when my character is finished?"

Your DM will NOT like that. And unless he's a rather strange person, he will likely change the house rule in order to allow all his players to participate without penalty.

Money....

I'm in a group where the party has not earned a SINGLE COPPER PIECE in 2 levels. No treasure, no money. I'm perfectly serious. NOTHING....wait! We each got 80g a piece once last month raiding a bandit camp. Hehe. Its a "travel around the lands and try and figure out where the badguy Sorcerer went off too," game that has been pretty fun if not materially rewarding.

SO...

I changed characters and took Leadership and asked the DM if I could generate the 10 level 1 followers I had coming. Not wanting to take the time to roll up 10 characters, he said, "Sure." So, I created 10 level 1's with Profession and Crafting skills (using the NPC Generator at http://www.aarg.net/~minam/npc2.cgi so it took me 5 minutes and a print out). Order your followers to Grind with their Skills. These skills allow them to make half their skill check per week in gold. And if your DM lets you take 10 instead of having to roll for each of them, that's about 10 or so gold per week per follower for a total of 150g per week. (If you save up and buy each of them masterwork tools (or just have them make...hehe), you can increase your income by 1 gold per week per follower). And if you make some of them Bards, (I have three) they can potentially make more than that. If you roll well, these fellas can bring in over 20 gold a week.

Okay...don't like those numbers? Go ahead and make a bunch of Crafting (composer, painter, wordsmith, playwrites). Have these puppies pump out Portraits, Epics, Plays and Compositions using the crafting rules. These crafting skills are unique in that they cost only 2 gold per week in materials instead of the normal 1/4th value to make, so you can make a wide variety of money, even if your DM lets you take 10. My "art crafters" pump out about 28 gold a week a piece.

This works out great for my character since we are a very "Globe Trotting" group and are travelling for weeks at a time (we just sailed to another city...took 4 months travel time).

I pay my followers 3g per week each (making them the richest NPC's in town next to the mayor, and I am assured to be rated "generous") so they love me...and I rake in 375g per week after paying them with 15 level 1 followers. I'll have 13,500 gold waiting for me by the time I get back assuming we are in the new country a month, and that's not including 270 days worth of 3 bardic performances per day!

I'll have more than enough to build the Timber Mill outside town my DM and I priced up in the Stonghold Builder's Guide. The money I make now will be paltry by comparison then. Hey...I'm a Commercial Loan Officer in real life! (My level 13 cleric makes 1304g per week with her 163 followers. Not really much else to use them for...hehe).

Of course, the DM will have to approve all of this (my DM said yes after seeing our group was down to a few gold a piece just paying for rooms at Inns and renewing supplies after a while). Using the rules, there's no reason why he wouldn't unless he simply wants to keep your Wizard down. If you think he might be leary, just stick with using Professions (and not the Crafting artists). There's simply no reason other than "CUZ I SAID SO!" to stop you from doing it. 100 to 150g per week (depending on your Leadership) should handle your scribing habit (maybe even help you to buy scrolls to scribe), though I'm not sure that helps if your character doesn't have the time or means to swing back into town every once and a while, and being able to take the time to do the scribing.

Again, I remind you to try the "I'm Scribing for the next week," and take yourself out of the game until your DM wakes up and figures out that you're having to miss all the cool stuff he has prepared because of his silly rule.

In closing, a question: Doesn't casting Read Magic on a scroll or spell prevent you from needing to study it for 8 hours before scribing it?