Wizard Wisdom Wierdness

[Particle_Man]

It's once per encounter, not once per round. It's still nasty, but not THAT nasty.

Once per encounter, but the effect lasts round after round until the victim saves.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Once per encounter, but the effect lasts round after round until the victim saves.

Which is something I'm going to mention in another thread that I think is a bit strange:

The Orb affects save after save after save, but the wand only affects one attack roll (even on an area attack where you want to make multiple rolls). This seems a little unfair, and I wonder why it isn't either:

Orb affects the initial save, but not subsequent saves
and
wand only affects one attack roll

OR

Orb should affect all saves
and
wand affects all the rolls made for a single attack.

Either of those would seem reasonable.

Cheers

 

[KarinsDad]

Which is something I'm going to mention in another thread that I think is a bit strange:

The Orb affects save after save after save, but the wand only affects one attack roll (even on an area attack where you want to make multiple rolls). This seems a little unfair

Is it?

Take an 18 Int, 16 Dex first level PC (not uncommon for a Wand user, but even an 18 Int, 14 Dex is fairly good).

He is +7 with one attack per encounter against Fort or Reflex saves in the vicinity of 12 to 14. That's 70% to 80% chance to hit.

At 8th level (bumping both), he gains +2 more than at 7th (not including magic or level bonuses). The Defenses of his average opponent only increases by 1 (on average throughout the MM, monsters increase defenses by 1 per level).

At 30th level, he can be 28 Int 26 Dex. With a +6 item and with no help from other PCs, powers, or feats, he is +30 to hit, or +38 once per encounter.

The difference between +30 and +38 is fairly substantial. The Orb guy still has to hit. Sure, he will hit eventually and still get his lock eventually, but the Wand guy can pretty much ensure (shy of rolling a 1) that he hits on round one.

Adding in rerolls, or Cleric auto-hit means auto-crit, and other synergies, it might be more worthwhile to have a one or two round lock (or damage) with a Wand in round one than a many round lock (or damage) in round two or three with an Orb. Especially in the case of damage, opponents might have ways to Regenerate or other forms of healing that are more useful over multiple rounds.

A 95% (70% at low level) chance to hit whenever he wants once per encounter might be worth a lot more in the long run than a 55% chance to hit. Sooner or later, the 55% chance to hit Orb guy is going to run into a streak of 45% for round after round after round. It's like Blackjack. Even if counting cards and having a better than 50% chance of winning each hand, a player sooner or later runs into that big long losing streak.

Pros and Cons.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

Is it?

Take an 18 Int, 16 Dex first level PC (not uncommon for a Wand user, but even an 18 Int, 14 Dex is fairly good).

He is +7 with one attack per encounter against Fort or Reflex saves in the vicinity of 12 to 14. That's 70% to 80% chance to hit.

At 8th level (bumping both), he gains +2 more than at 7th (not including magic or level bonuses). The Defenses of his average opponent only increases by 1 (on average throughout the MM, monsters increase defenses by 1 per level).

At 30th level, he can be 28 Int 26 Dex. With a +6 item and with no help from other PCs, powers, or feats, he is +30 to hit, or +38 once per encounter.

The difference between +30 and +38 is fairly substantial. The Orb guy still has to hit. Sure, he will hit eventually and still get his lock eventually, but the Wand guy can pretty much ensure (shy of rolling a 1) that he hits on round one.

Adding in rerolls, or Cleric auto-hit means auto-crit, and other synergies, it might be more worthwhile to have a one or two round lock (or damage) with a Wand in round one than a many round lock (or damage) in round two or three with an Orb. Especially in the case of damage, opponents might have ways to Regenerate or other forms of healing that are more useful over multiple rounds.

A 95% (70% at low level) chance to hit whenever he wants once per encounter might be worth a lot more in the long run than a 55% chance to hit. Sooner or later, the 55% chance to hit Orb guy is going to run into a streak of 45% for round after round after round. It's like Blackjack. Even if counting cards and having a better than 50% chance of winning each hand, a player sooner or later runs into that big long losing streak.

Pros and Cons.

I do agree with you that the wand implement is definitely an option, but realize that at higher levels there are many more abilities that add to attack bonus compared to how many there are to subtract from saves. That's not to say its a lot, but higher level leaders can give a bunch of bonuses to hit, or you could take the battlemage path which with action points grants a +4 to hit. Not to mention that if you put every set of points into intelligence and dexterity, your defenses as a whole are going to SUCK, whereas if you do that with intellegence and wisdom you get an awesome will and an awesome reflex (unfortunately fort is still in the suck department). Also, you don't decide whether the you use the orb ability until you hit, and your going to hit someone with a save ends ability at least once in an encounter eventually.