Wizard Woes

[AbdulAlhazred]

Ranged combat works OK. It is deemphasized to a certain extent, but it works fine. The difference is that combat is more exact than in earlier versions of D&D. Magic Users used to just toss AoE's around like candy and nobody ever really bothered to figure out if party members were in it or not. Players would invariably get a nasty surprise when they got to my game and tossed a fireball and all of a sudden the whole party was incinerated! I recall a now (in)famous gaming session where the Magic User TPKed the entire party, lol.

In actuality 4e is a bit nicer to wizards since AoEs have exact areas specified and they are a LOT smaller than those of yore. You just have to get the party to work with you a bit. Defenders should not be rushing up ahead of the group into the midst of monsters and Strikers should deploy themselves such that they give the wizard a chance to chuck a nice daily or encounter AoE into the bad guys before they mix it up with them.

Overall it USUALLY makes more sense for the party to deploy in such a way as to bring the monsters to them initially instead of leaping in. Strikers should move to the flanks and or take a ranged shot at the start of combat. Wizard spells also mostly have a pretty good long range, so unless the monsters are right on you from round 1 there should be a round or even two while the monsters move up where they are well within range and can be softened up.

Sometimes DMs will set up terrain or other circumstances where that just isn't the case, and then the front line guys need to use some tactics and push monsters back or into a bunch. Then the wizard can drop an AoE behind enemy lines and should avoid catching party members. Worst case you DO have to hit one of your own people, but usually if the spell also catches several bad guys it is well worth it.

In the group I DM for I actually don't recall a situation yet where a party member has been caught in the wizard's AoE. Sometimes she's had to leave one enemy out in order to avoid hitting the dwarf fighter, but it always seems to work out OK.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'm playing a 4th level wizard (with 18 Int) and having a blast with him (literally).

Flaming Sphere is an encounter-defining spell, especially in tight situations where you can get it behind the enemy line!

I've got scorching burst and thunderwave, both of which have been useful - but I've thought it might be nice to have a single target one so that I can attack single foes which the rest of the party have surrounded.

Your desire for battlefield control will be assuaged a little more as you reach higher levels (5th and up), but essentially getting dailies with sustain minor will be a big help in setting up and managing the battlefield.

Cheers

 

[Wednesday Boy]

here's something you should try doing, roll higher.

See? I knew there was a simple fix that I was missing! Thanks Klassy!

 

[Anthraxus]

You are doing your job as a wizard if you are hitting 2+ opponents each round. You will the be doing 2d6+12 damage each round, doing even more damage than a rogue. Thats the "control" aspect of a low-level wizard. If I have used my flaming sphere I will easily be doing 2d6+12 + 1d4+6 damage each round.

Blackbrrd- do you mean 2d6+ 6 damage for the standard action usage of Flaming Sphere?

The 1d4+ 6 damage at the beginning of an opponent's turn does help a lot when you can park the Sphere next to 2+ opponents, like Blackbrrd says.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

Thanks all for the advice, that helps a bunch. I've made a checklist!

*Bring up teamwork with the party. (I think that seems like one of the most promising fixes.)

*Take Imp. Init. (While I didn't really want Imp. Init. because it doesn't fit with the character-- an elderly Galdalf-ish sage, maybe I'll take it just to make the character more fun.)

*Switch around my At-Wills to take an area attack to see if that improves anything.

*Stick with the character because battlefield control is on the horizon. (This is another good suggestion and one that I had considered as well because so far my 4th Ed. Wizardly experience is made of two encounters for level 1 characters.)

I appreciate the help and if there are any other suggestions, keep them coming!!

 

[lazerfish]

My first 4e character I played in any real capacity was a human wizard. Honestly, I didn't love it at first, but I quickly found myself the most potent member of the party.

A quick question: how high is your Wisdom? It seems that since your initiative is so low, your Dexterity must be too, leaving me to believe you must have put some points into it. If your modifier is +2 or higher, then I really can't recommend Thunderwave enough. The ability to push is both incredibly useful and incredibly fun, and it saved my ass countless times.

I liked Cloud of Daggers, too, but you'll get varying opinions on that.

Your dailies and encounters, while important, are not as important as your at-wills. Especially at such a low level, your at-wills and how you use them define your character.

Also, Flaming Sphere is incredible.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

To those of you who have two area spells (Scorching Burst and Thunderwave) and no single-target spell: How often do you find yourself unable to act effectively because there is only a single target remaining and it is flanked? I'm thinking specifically of Solos and tough Elites, but it could just be the last normal monster standing at the end of the encounter.

One thing I like about the Invoker is the two-target At-Will power Divine Bolts. Two targets, no risk of friendly-fire damage.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, if wizards have a flaw it would be taking on some of the solo type monsters. If the monster is huge, then you can usually just plaster it with an AoE, even if the party is surrounding the monster, but then damage is not going to be super. Magic Missile is the fallback for this kind of situation, but it can get a bit repetitive. In general 4e is kind of weak when it comes to taking on solo monsters. There just usually isn't a lot you can do tactically and it devolves down to a slugfest, which always ends up taking a long time to resolve.

Frankly I avoid using solos for that reason in my game for the most part. You can avoid a lot of the tedium though by just running combat to the point where it is a foregone conclusion and then just let the monster die a heroic death, don't bother with pounding out those last 100 hit points of damage if the end result is going to be the same either way. Usually once you hit an encounter like that it is end of day anyway, so it is really moot whether or not the party burns all its remaining resources. I've also seen some DMs state that at that point they'll just let PCs trade healing surges for damage, which makes sense.

 

[Bleoberis De Ganis]

I still think using Intelligence modifier to initiative makes sense. Which would make the most difference in how quickly and effectively a character reacts to a combat starting up. A sharp, attentive mind or the ability to flip a coin over your knuckles.

Also, there should be more spell shaping feats and feats that protect/ommit allies from area spell effects.

Also, I think wizards should be able to cast spells smaller if they wish to. If a spell is blast/burst 2, for example, he should be able to cast it as a blast/burst 1. This could solve a little of these problems.

So my 3 houserules would be:

1. Use highest of dex/int for initiative modifier.
2. Allow wizards to cast burst/blast spells smaller than the standard size.
3. (Wizard Ommition) Ommit one square from a spell's effects.

That would probably sort it all out, at least to the point of making them effectively playable in the role they are designed for.

Give the controller more control.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

A quick question: how high is your Wisdom? It seems that since your initiative is so low, your Dexterity must be too, leaving me to believe you must have put some points into it. If your modifier is +2 or higher, then I really can't recommend Thunderwave enough. The ability to push is both incredibly useful and incredibly fun, and it saved my ass countless times.

I liked Cloud of Daggers, too, but you'll get varying opinions on that.

My Wisdom has a +2 modifier (I can't remember the exact number though). I steered away from Thunderwave because I thought I wouldn't be close enough to the front line to get to use it much. But I'm going to work it into the mix for next session to try it out.

I definitely like Cloud of Daggers. It wasn't much but in one of our battles I was able to bottle up a passageway so the enemies who were coming to join the fight took a little damage on their way to us.