D&D 5E Wizards (et al.) Casting Known Spells?

[DND_Reborn]

Since some classes have known spells, I have been toying with the idea of giving Clerics, Druids, and Wizards known spells as well instead of prepared spells, using the same ideas as Bards and others (you start with 2 or 3, get one a level, exchange one, etc.). I know Wizards "know" the spells in their spellbooks, but I am looking to remove the idea of having to select preparing spells.

As an aside, maybe Ritual spells would count as known for Wizards since ritual casting is a big deal for them.

I don't know. I am not crazy about the idea of prepared spells for those classes and would like to streamline them. Any one have any thoughts about removing prepared spells or have other ideas?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Don't Wizards already have 'known spells'? - The spells that they choose to learn and put in their spellbook.
Its pretty core to the concept of the D&D Wizard class.

Clerics and Druids having a limited list of known spells rather than being able to prepare any spells on their list would be pretty similar to the way wizards work. Balancing might be tricky however since it would be a not-insignificant hit to their versatility.

 

[DND_Reborn]

LOL ok, so technically the known spells of a wizard are the ones in his spellbook. I meant the idea of known spells similar to Bards so that I can nix the idea of "prepared" spells.

Clerics and Druids have no known spell list. They "know" all the spells available to them but select spells to prepare. I would like to change that to "known" spells akin to Bards, et al.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

LOL ok, so technically the known spells of a wizard are the ones in his spellbook. I meant the idea of known spells similar to Bards so that I can nix the idea of "prepared" spells.

Clerics and Druids have no known spell list. They "know" all the spells available to them but select spells to prepare. I would like to change that to "known" spells akin to Bards, et al.

Sorry for the confusion.

Having seen some confusion about preparing spells at my table, and seeing that once my players selected their spells and prepared, they did not care to switch them, I decided to put all caster in the ''known, no prep'' team. You could see a loss of versatility if you noticed your players tend to switch their spell a lot, but I think that most players select their favorite spells from the list and stick with them so YMMV.

EDIT: My wizards also have to select a least one spell from their chosen school at level up (if any remaining).

 

[DND_Reborn]

I've seen much the same. Although other casters might swap out spells once in a while, by and large they seem loyal to their favorites. Here is the progression I am thinking of for the other classes in gaining known spells instead of using prepared spells.



I'm also considering having the spellcasting ability score modifier added to the number of known spells for all spellcasting classes.

(If the chart is HUGE, I have no idea why... If it is normal, then never mind.)

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

If you do this then why play a wizard? A sorcerer does everything they do, with the addition of sorcery points and metamagic.

The process of sitting down at the beginning of the day and picking spells is part of the concept of the wizard and cleric classes. Versatility is a core concept. Sorcerers and bards et al are trading this versatility for other features.

Personally, my cleric is swapping out a few spells known every rest, based on what I think is coming up. Some days I'll prepare silence, darkness; other days something else. Sometimes healing word, sometimes cure wounds, occasionally both.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

If you do this then why play a wizard? A sorcerer does everything they do, with the addition of sorcery points and metamagic.

The process of sitting down at the beginning of the day and picking spells is part of the concept of the wizard and cleric classes. Versatility is a core concept. Sorcerers and bards et al are trading this versatility for other features.

Personally, my cleric is swapping out a few spells known every rest, based on what I think is coming up. Some days I'll prepare silence, darkness; other days something else. Sometimes healing word, sometimes cure wounds, occasionally both.

Yes to all this. Plus the wizard PCs I’ve seen in play enjoy looting enemy wizard spellbooks. I see no reason to take that fun mini-quest away.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Oh, there are still reasons to play Wizards and Clerics (and even Druids ). First, you'll notice those spellcasters get more known spells (not a lot at first, but quite a bit more later on). As I mentioned as an option, Ritual spells could be automatically known and used maybe (at least for Wizards). I was also considering granting more uses of Channel Divinity and likewise with Druid class features.

In our group the versatility of these classes is nothing compared to the delay in time it takes when players pour over their spell lists trying to decide what to take for the day. 90% of the time, nothing changes, except maybe a few spells as Greenstone.Walker mentions, and several minutes or longer of precious game time is wasted.

And the looting of enemy spellbooks is hardly a "mini-quest" IMO, but really just another piece of treasure. Since there is no threat to not understand what another wizard writes, it is pretty mundane since it is automatic.

Obviously this is not something for everyone, and I am more interested in ways to remove preparing spells -- not discussions why we shouldn't. I know those, and don't care for them; to me they aren't good enough reasons.

 

[Staffan]

A word of warning regarding making clerics (and to a lesser extent druids) spells known-casters:

I used to play an Oracle in Pathfinder, which is basically a spells known-cleric. One of my major issues with that was that the cleric spell list is mostly reactive. Let me delve a little deeper into that.

The wizard spell list is mostly proactive. It's about causing trouble for others via damage, crowd control, or both. You got your blasts, your hypnotic patterns, your illusions, your sleeps, your charms, and so on. There are some situational issues, but most of the time whatever spell you're going to cast is going to eff someone up, and it doesn't much matter which spell you cast.

The cleric list, on the other hand, is mostly reactive. It's about fixing things that have gone wrong. Someone has taken damage, or been cursed, or poisoned, or whatever. These problems all have different solutions, and the cleric needs to be able to solve them all. That's going to eat up a chunk of the cleric's spells known.

This problem is not as bad in 5e as in 3e/PF, because many of the fixer spells have been folded into Lesser and Greater Restoration. But it still exists, and is worth considering before making the cleric reliant on a small spell list.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

In our group the versatility of these classes is nothing compared to the delay in time it takes when players pour over their spell lists trying to decide what to take for the day.​

This is the way wizards should be. Pouring over their spell books trying to anticipate every eventuality whist the rest of the party nags them, eager to get going. If they really hate it they should dump the wizard and put out "help wanted" ads for a sorcerer.