Wizards killing products?

[Darrin Drader]

In no particular order: Darwin's World 2nd edition, Critical Hits, Tome of Horrors 2, Creature Collection 3, Book of Fiends, Arms & Armor 3.5, the Midnight Campaign Setting, Iron Heroes, and OGL Ancients. I'm sure I'm overlooking something, but its late and I'm headed off to bed.

 

[Bagpuss]

Fields of Blood probably the best war/realm book.

 

[Tinner]

I'll probably get mocked for this, but ...

Book of Erotic Fantasy.
No, seriously!
The art was outstanding. The writing was excellent, and there are a lot of ideas in this book that I'm using in my games.
Granted, the subject matter isn't going to work for everyone, but there's a lot of good stuff in this book.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Not to pick on someone but I know Night can take it

So you're saying that ToH (I don't have the second one) is as well balanced and written for a standard DnD game as the MM (or MM2/Fiend Folio if you prefer)?

You feel that the art, layout and and so forth are at the same level?
(Was there a 3.5 version I missed?)

Hate to repeat but: I'm curious about the books that people feel are as-good-or-better-than-(good)-WotC books including things like art, production values and game balance.

The monsters in ToH fit many a nostalgic itch but it's a 3.0 book and it's certainlyu not at the level of the Monster Manual in terms of art, layout and so forth. It has a lot of ugly art in it. Not quite as bad as the Creature Collection or Creature Collection revised, but not as good as Tome of Horrors 2, where a lot of progress was made.

 

[Garnfellow]

Not to pick on someone but I know Night can take it

So you're saying that ToH (I don't have the second one) is as well balanced and written for a standard DnD game as the MM (or MM2/Fiend Folio if you prefer)?

You feel that the art, layout and and so forth are at the same level?
(Was there a 3.5 version I missed?)

Hate to repeat but: I'm curious about the books that people feel are as-good-or-better-than-(good)-WotC books including things like art, production values and game balance.

There is no publisher that can even come close to touching WotC for production values. None. Period. Seriously, is this a loaded question?

As far as game balance and editing The Book of Fiends, ToH II, and Advanced Bestiary easily trump MMIII.

 

[DM_Jeff]

There is no publisher that can even come close to touching WotC for production values. None. Period. Seriously, is this a loaded question?

While I would 99% agree, you have to take a nice long look at Denizens of Avadnu by Inner Circle Games before saying 'none'. They ARE the only publisher who has come close...real close.

-DM Jeff

 

[JoeGKushner]

There is no publisher that can even come close to touching WotC for production values. None. Period. Seriously, is this a loaded question?

As far as game balance and editing The Book of Fiends, ToH II, and Advanced Bestiary easily trump MMIII.

Redhurst, Academy of Magic is a very good book in terms of production values. As is Arcana Evolved, and to a lesser extend, World of Warcraft (the computer graphics killed a bit of it). As others have mentioned, Denizens is another solid book in terms of art and layout.

And the color books in the Warhammer line will surely give people a run for their taste, but it doesn't meet the d20 criteria.

 

[Mystery Man]

I'd chuck the Planar Handbook over a few 3rd party planar products I can't think of right now. It doesn't matter though, it really isn't that hard to top it.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Hmm....

Well, nearly any 3rd-party book for artwork (over WotC's). In my opinion, that is.

Not an opinion that's widely shared perhaps, but still, there it is.

I'd rather not go into the details of why I don't like much of the artwork they choose to use, as I do not have immunity to fire.

Oh, the same goes for writing styles (and often editing) too.

Er.. and useful game mechanics, interesting ideas.....

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

There is no publisher that can even come close to touching WotC for production values. None. Period. Seriously, is this a loaded question?

How do you define 'production values,' anyway? Color art? High-quality paper? The inevitable search for ever more cumbersome and infuriating hardcovers ?

Sovreign Press uses all color art and glossy paper for their entire Dragonlance line. Glossy! I'd probably have to give them the nod as having the best production values overall, unless someone knows of a critical flaw in their books - a recurring binding error or some such. Of course, they're sort of a second party publisher with direct ties to Wizards.

Sword & Sorcery Studios' Warcraft books, except for the computer graphics in the current one, have better-than-WotC production values, especially when you consider that their art is electronic game concept art quality - a tier above, at least in terms of pay, I wager.

AEG's Spycraft (I know, non-D&D, but this isn't a direct response to the OP) was all color art, nice paper, in a stupidly thick, heavy-bound hardcover. What hardcovers they have produced for D&D, like the original d20 Rokugan book, have been of WotC caliber.

Mongoose's entire Conan line is full color. Initially, I would have said the art was at or above WotC level, particularly the gorgeous covers, but it seems they're reusing cover images now. :\ I seem to recall some binding issues with the core book, too.

Only Sovreign Press has met WotC production values consistently.

Of course, given the choice between two black and white softcovers for $19.99 each and one color hardcover for 34.99, I'll spend $5.00 more to get the softcovers; the weight and convenience is easily worth extra cash and the loss of color art.