Wizards killing products?

[JoeGKushner]

Of course, given the choice between two black and white softcovers for $19.99 each and one color hardcover for 34.99, I'll spend $5.00 more to get the softcovers; the weight and convenience is easily worth extra cash and the loss of color art.

In terms of content, I call BS on this because most 160 page hardcovers from third party publishers like Atlas and Goodman games have been in black and white and costs $30 long before WoTC shrunk their 192 page books to 160 and still kept the color.

About the only thing $19.99 would buy these days is a 96 page black and white book, and I'd rather have the 224 page $34.99 book that WoTC is producing these days.

 

[Mystery Man]

I'll take a hardcover any day over soft. They take a beating better, and last longer.

 

[Steel_Wind]

There is no publisher that can even come close to touching WotC for production values. None. Period. Seriously, is this a loaded question?

Sovereign Press' War of the Lance matches any WotC book, page for page, picture for picture, color for color. It's also twice as long as the average WotC hardcover these days.

True, it's a licensed product based on core WotC IP. But the production values are there.

While I accept the generality of your statement being true - there are exceptions.

 

[Hussar]

Ok, for those of us out here who aren't involved in any way in the publishing business other than as a consumer, what the heck are "production values"?

On a side note, it's nice to see that I actually own a couple of the books mentioned here.

While it's not hardcover, and it's not the prettiest book in the world, Living Imagination's Broadsides!! is probably the best researched and strongest ruleset for naval campaigns on the market, even if it is for 3e. And, one of the best editted books I've read as well.

 

[radferth]

I'll have to see if I can get TOH2 and CC3, as I have the "prequels" for these and reasonably enjoyed them. I would also add and amen for Frost & Fur, but it falls down a bit in both the art and the game mechanics (particularly on the prestige classes). Based on eveything else, though, I rate it vastly superior to Frostburn (and I like Frostburn).

I will now perform a mini-thread hijack and pimp my favorite D&D book even though the art is not WOTC-quality (and WOTC often bugs me with over-spikey armor and caricatured orcs). Green Ronin's Complete Shaman's Handbook is by far the best 3rd ed D&D supplement I have used. The shaman as they present it is much better for a generic animist caster than the core druid, and most of the prestige classes are quite good (and many are for non-shamans). One can buy the book and start using the shaman class for most tribal and humanoid spellcasters without breaking a sweat or making major (or even many minor) changes to the campaign world. It has totally driven the adept class from all my game worlds. OTOH, the art is fine but not great. It is technically a 3.0 book, but 3.5 update on Green Ronin's website can be summarized as: change on the skill names that changed (e.g. wilderness lore), and fold into class skills the skills that changed into classskills (e.g. scry). In general I find more use for Green Ronin supplements than TSR ones, but this one should seriously be on every DMs shelf.

 

[Henry]

Green Ronin's Products and Malhavoc's Products are rapidly shaping up to be premier offerings to rival WotC's stuff. From innovative rules, to excellent artwork, to inspiring topics, they're turning out some awesome stuff. Witness Mutants and Masterminds 2e and Arcana Evolved. Even though M&M2 is not out yet, if it follows in M&M1's footsteps, it will be a fantastic product.

 

[Ashrum the Black]

Privateer Press's Monsternomican, and their Full Metal Fantasy Volumes 1 and 2 are definitely at the same, or better, level as WotC. Their campiagn world is well thought out, logical in its complexity, and is just plain fun!

Also the Denizens of Avadnu monster book was incredible, and they really made epic monsters sound ... well, epic.

-Ashrum

 

[Driddle]

Wizards acting to kill products?
Or, assuming a dropped hyphen, products that are killing wizards?

Because a compound modifier requires a hyphen to join the words as one concept: Wizards-killing. Otherwise the words are interpreted separately in default noun-verb order.

This is the basis for the old joke you might see at a carnival: "Man Eating Chicken!" Finger-lickin' good fun, but not quite the same thing as the more dangerous man-eating chicken.

 

[Kanegrundar]

Here's my lists (one for fantasy and one for other genres)

Fantasy: Arcana Evolved, World of Warcraft, Monsternomicon, Denizens of Avadnu, Chaositech, Legacy of the Dragons, and the Book of Fiends right off the top of my head.

Other Genres (Supers, Modern, Sci-Fi): Mutants and Masterminds, Modern Player's Companions, Darwin's World 2, Babylon 5.

There are others (namely PDF's) that also fit the bill in my mind, but I need to get back to work. Needless to say the D20/OGL market has had some great product that rises above the muck to challenge even the top-dog.

Kane

 

[jaerdaph]

Book of Templates - Deluxe Edition from Silverthorne Games.
Ronin Arts Modern collection - it is Dark*Matter for d20 Modern.