Wizards, Metamagic, item Creation -- too few feats to get them??

[Storm Raven]

it starts that rogues almost have a fireball on flanking...

To a single target. As opposed to things that are much more powerful, like area attack spells.

and fighters deal much more damage...

Wizards can do far more than cause damage. Stop thinking about them as autocannons (that's what Sorcerers are for) and start thinking about their versatility.

 

[Kithmaker]

The bonus feats help balance wizards against sorcerers, but if you start giving out more I think sorcerers lose out.

And like I said, in my experience, it's these bonus feats that give the Wizard a strong edge over the Sorcerer...

 

[Xeriar]

Sounds more like a PrC to me

Huh? How? It would be silly to make something normally cost feats, although having an artificer PRC being the only one with the magecraft skills as class skills may be an interesting idea.

I have trouble with the 'pay twice' nature of metamagic and item creation, which is why I made them skills. You still pay twice, and you still have to pick and choose, but the price is a lot lower.

 

[Ran]

I was surprised to see this thread.
In my experience, the Wizard gets more bonus feats than he should -- to the point of being imbalancing. I've had Wizards cranking out magic items that seem innocuous enough, but end up having profound effects on the game...

yeah, i know, item creation is really something, but they have a price, experiencee, the wizard may not abuse, unless you have ways of countering the loss (gaining more than everyone else), but that makes the loss useless...

Hmm... I have to admit that I haven't seen much in the way of high-level wizards in play, but it all looks about right to me. The bonus feats help balance wizards against sorcerers, but if you start giving out more I think sorcerers lose out.

Well, sorcerers are the lost core class, it really miss a lot... it must be remade, not revised...

To a single target. As opposed to things that are much more powerful, like area attack spells.

Wizards can do far more than cause damage. Stop thinking about them as autocannons (that's what Sorcerers are for) and start thinking about their versatility.

Yes, i know, they really can do much more, but it cannot be comparble to what a cleric can do, and yet, the wizards are still very related to combat spells, even though they have great support and defensive magic...

And like I said, in my experience, it's these bonus feats that give the Wizard a strong edge over the Sorcerer...

I agree, but sorcerers are... I said it already...

 

[clockworkjoe]

I just think there are too many item creation feats. Staffs rods and wands should be grouped into one feat, potions and scrolls into another, and rings and wondrous into another.

I can't picture a spellcaster taking craft staff, rod or ring when wondrous item is so much more versatile or wand which is a lot cheaper.

 

[LostSoul]

Hmm... I think Wizards get a lot of metamagic feats, enough for them to specialize or generalize. Although I do have a Wiz in my game that never uses those metamagic feats. I wish he would; it seems that metamagic feats make spells more "mystical".

 

[LostSoul]

I can't picture a spellcaster taking craft staff, rod or ring when wondrous item is so much more versatile or wand which is a lot cheaper.

Well, you're only going to take Craft Staff, Rod or Ring when you're really high level and probably have already taken Craft Wand (for Dispel Magic, Fireball, Fly, etc.) and a bunch of metamagic feats.

 

[clark411]

I voted wizards as being fine. Having a limited number of options makes most wizards fairly different, which allows for more variety. Each wizard can be great at one thing, good at several things, or have many basic qualities- and that's how it should be imho.

 

[Ran]

(...)
I do have a Wiz in my game that never uses those metamagic feats. I wish he would; it seems that metamagic feats make spells more "mystical".

That is because you have to pay a high cost for it, in fact, metamagic is, most of the time, too expensive too compensate or the loss.

 

[Ran]

I just think there are too many item creation feats. Staffs rods and wands should be grouped into one feat, potions and scrolls into another, and rings and wondrous into another.

I can't picture a spellcaster taking craft staff, rod or ring when wondrous item is so much more versatile or wand which is a lot cheaper.

I would agree with you, even though loustsoul is right, since those feats work well only at high levels (the items nees high level spells to be made).

Anyway, i really liked more the way that items were made on 2nd edition, they were more mystical, difficult to craft, and so they were less of a habit.