Wizards, need your input.

[Kitirat]

Ok so everyone in my group is building up characters and while someone was once excited about being a Wizard, once he got the books and saw fireball, fly and levitate invisibilty and a host of other spells, he felt they were too heavily nerfed to play.

Everyone (my players) else tends to say the same thing, that the wizard is not near what the other classes are and a few area effect minion splats does not make up for its lack of survivability as compared to say an infernal or fey warlock.

So my question goes out to people who have DMed for or actively played a wizard beyond the DDxp and game day experiences. Is this feeling of my players correct, or are wizards cooler than they first appear?

Thanks,
Ken

 

[Mort_Q]

I think people are stuck on what worked in 3e... that makes 4e edition looks leaner.

You don't run out of at-will spells! There are ways to get encounter and daily powers back. There are wands.

It's different, not weak.

 

[Surgoshan]

Yes, the wizard has been nerfed. Rather than being a god, he'll be a demigod. It's a change they'll learn to get used to. Also, because of the way gameplay has changed, the powers are going to play very differently from what they're used to. Ask one to play a wizard anyway and reserve final judgement until after it's been used in play for a few levels.

 

[Kitirat]

Yes, the wizard has been nerfed. Rather than being a god, he'll be a demigod. It's a change they'll learn to get used to. Also, because of the way gameplay has changed, the powers are going to play very differently from what they're used to. Ask one to play a wizard anyway and reserve final judgement until after it's been used in play for a few levels.

My experience is force anyone to play something and it always turns out bad.

I'll find it interesting if we get no responses from people who have actually PLAYED a wizard.

I'd particually love a story about a good or bad experience you've had playing one or a DM who has seen something happen. I have only seen bad things from wizards in the DDxp experince and the game day.

 

[Asmor]

I didn't mind playing the wizard in the WWDDGD adventure. Never really got a chance to setup the burst attack (thunder something or other?) because my allies were always in the way, but magic missile was pretty solid and even though he made the save right away Acid Arrow still did 14+5 points of damage, which is pretty good IMHO. Sadly, couldn't catch anyone else in the splash. :/

Also fun: Twice in the adventure I got to play cleric, using heal to let unconscious people use their second winds. One of those two times it was actually the cleric I was helping.

 

[kclark]

I do like what they did with wands. Very cool way of grabbing a more situational power.

 

[1720xx]

Wizards Input

I actually played one this weekend through the beginning of H1, It is a servicable class, and I like the at will and encounter aspects. That said i am a heavy Role player, and I miss certain spells and HATE that WOTC is telling me where to put my attributes while spanking me when i deviate from a pre prescribed build.

 

[zero skill LPB]

I'm running Keep on the Shadowfell for two different groups.

The pre-gen Human Wizard has packed a mighty minion-crushing wallop in both runs. The players in both runs have enjoyed themselves immensely thus far.

People having fun. Working as intended.

 

[Harr]

We have a wizard in the party. He does very well. Doesn't outshine anyone, but he's certainly an integral part of the team to the point where if he misses the game some night the rest of the guys truly miss having all enemies at half hp before they even lay a hand on them.

That's not even counting the times when he decides to start mopping up the battle field with his flaming ball.

I think people expect the wizard to be able to hit those 9 guys with his scorching blast and also kill those 9 guys with his scorching blast. That's never gonna happen, because he's not made or meant to do that. He's not meant to kill. He's meant to hit. A lot. All over the place. So the strikers can then come in and just sorta pick 'em off. And he does fabulously well at what he does.

Rush your strikers with 6 guys at a time and see what happens. then add in a couple wizards and then see what happens.

Wizards (and all 4e classes) are meant to be judged on their performance while working in a team with other roles. I mean if your friends are looking at wizards powers and imagining just a single wizard in the middle of a bunch of monsters and scoffinf, of course I can understand why they'd feel that way, but then I'd tell them to flip over to the warlord and get an even bigger laugh. It's not the way it's meant to be looked at.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Wizards have a lot going for them, and they do not give up that much compared to earlier eds. A 3e Wizard got no armor, 4 hps, and poor weapons that he'd actually have to fall back on quite a bit early in his career. The 2e & 1e wizards had it even tougher. That early suckage was compensated for by an ever-growing customizeable list of abuseable spells as you leveled up - as long as everything went your way. When things went badly wrong, you could still find yourself reduced to commoner in pointy hat at any time. The Wizard was the most poorly balanced character class in the history of the game, throughout the history of the game.

4e tries to change all that. The 4e wizard has 10+CON hps, and no reason not to take a good CON (STR being emminently dumpable). That's compared to 12 for most other classes. Oooh, you're down /2 hit points/ compared to the Cleric, Rogue, & Warlord. You get 4 hps per level. So you're down 1/level after that. You have good WILL, and your INT - your primary offensive stat, bound to be 16-20 to sart, adds to your REF /and AC/. You can take feats to wear armor. If you're in leather, your AC is probably 16, +1 if you're a staff wizard. The Cleric in Chainmail? Yep, AC 16. At worst, CON is your third priority, so you probably have at least +4 hps, and a 12 FORT. Not great, but probably pretty close to the Rogue. True, your weapons are unimpressive, but, really, who need's 'em. You can cast Magic Missle 14,400 times per day, and it counts as a basic attack.

So, really, honestly, the Wiz had 2hps+1/level to 'make up for' vis-a-vis most other classes. That's less than a single healing surge worth of hps.

You have another at-will attack spell, too, that's better than magic missle, and you have unlimitted use of 4 cantrips, too. On top of that you get your encounter and daily spell (and you get to switch out your daily every day, something no other class gets). The spellbook, alone, probably makes up for the Wizard's slight frailty, but, he also gets his Implement speciality, and undisputed mastery or Ritual magic, prettymuch for 'free.' Rituals are few, now, but can you doubt that there'll be splatbooks full of them coming out?

So, no, the Wizard isn't weak - he no longer experiences the extraordinary swings in power that he used to - but, he has exactly the same number and utility of powers as every other class (as all classes do), perfectly competative class features, /and/ rituals /and/ the unique ability to swap out dailies and utilities every day. All he gives up is a few hps.