Wizards now more of a speciality magician

[WayneLigon]

Hmm. I think it's a bit too early to really tell what they'll do. The article seems to suggest that the spells would still be available to a generalist wizard, but that the specialist classes would be able to use them to greater effect. So far, it's just a few lines in a message board post, and might well represent something not solidified.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

Caution! Response to hypothetical outcome of hints only! Nice to see the rogue stealing some of his stuff back. And, it being the rogue, he can even leave the wizard alive to do it.

 

[Sadrik]

I also like that a wizard is pared down. It makes the class less broad and since they want to sell books, not having everything step on the wizards toes just makes sense to go that way.

I think the wizard should be broken into 5 pieces:
A Necromancer/Warlock- does the dark magic stuff. Undead creation, demon summoning, fear effects, curses, debuffing, and physical drain attacks

A Enchanter/Psion- does the precognition (divination), telekinesis (force powers), telepathy(mind control, charm stuff, psychic blasts), and body control(self buffs).

An Illusionist/Shadow mage- does illusions and shadow magic real well, phantasms should be under the enchanter/psion though.

A Sorcerer/Elemental mage- small spell selection, but mostly a blaster mage for fire, water, air, and earth. Fire w/ fire damage, Water w/ cold damage, air w/ lightning, earth w/ physical damage.

A Wizard- does everything everyone else does just not as specialized in the other three areas. For instance a wizard should have fear, telekinesis, and invisibility. Just not at the level the other guys have it at.

 

[apoptosis]

It seems to me they're restoring a lot of the 1e Illusionist spells which were encamped by the 2e Mage. To use a current expression, "the Illusionist mugged the Wizard and took back his stuff"...

Regardless, it's inevitable that the versatility of the Wizard be pared down a bit. As things stand now, after third level or so, you don't really need a Rogue -- Knock, Invisibility, Spider Climb, Comprehend Languages, and Find Traps (a Cleric spell, but still) and you have all your bases covered. Why should they be able to have the proverbial kitchen sink, anyway?

If magic cant do things then what is its point (i say this with some exaggeration). All the spells you mentioned are somewhat iconic. If they cant spider climb then they can levitate which still steps on the rogues niche.

Spells that cant unlock doors or make you invisible seems very strange to me.

What would you want magic to be able to do?

 

[Cadfan]

There's different ways to group powers.

You can group them by effect. That's the current system in 3.5. If a spell summons magical flame, its Evocation. If it conjures a creature, its Conjuration. Etc.

Or you can group them by some other flavor aspect. Take the Shadowcaster as an example of that sort of design. He has evocation, conjuration, illusion, basically everything. But he has only one thematic focus.

I kind of like that more, but I don't know how you'd do that for a base class since that assumes a setting.

 

[Cadfan]

If magic cant do things then what is its point (i say this with some exaggeration). All the spells you mentioned are somewhat iconic. If they cant spider climb then they can levitate which still steps on the rogues niche.

Spells that cant unlock doors or make you invisible seems very strange to me.

What would you want magic to be able to do?

Change Spider Climb from "you can walk up walls" to "+20 on your climb check."

Now Spider Climb still helps the wizard climb, but the rogue can benefit from it as well. Instead of making the rogue obsolete, he's enhanced by cooperation.

 

[apoptosis]

Change Spider Climb from "you can walk up walls" to "+20 on your climb check."

Now Spider Climb still helps the wizard climb, but the rogue can benefit from it as well. Instead of making the rogue obsolete, he's enhanced by cooperation.

While i understand why some might want this, I personally absolutely HATE that spells should just be bonuses to skill checks.

For me it is the quickest way to make magic (a very important part of a fantasy game for me) mundane and uninteresting.

 

[Sadrik]

There's different ways to group powers.

You can group them by effect. That's the current system in 3.5. If a spell summons magical flame, its Evocation. If it conjures a creature, its Conjuration. Etc.

Or you can group them by some other flavor aspect. Take the Shadowcaster as an example of that sort of design. He has evocation, conjuration, illusion, basically everything. But he has only one thematic focus.

I kind of like that more, but I don't know how you'd do that for a base class since that assumes a setting.

I totally agree the spells should not be based on effect but on flavor and thematic focus.

As an example, I think you could almost completely remove the conjuration school. Summon spells broken up into more character specific spell types, what a wizard summons is going to be different from what a cleric summons to what an illusionist "creates" or a Necromancer "creates" or elemental sorcerer summons or a druid summons but they could all be in essence the same spell with minor variations. And all of the other non-summoning spells in that school could get reordered into other classes too- damage spells into sorcerer, teleport into wizard, prismatic spells into illusionist, clouds and fogs in warlock, and walls in wizard.

 

[FourthBear]

If magic cant do things then what is its point (i say this with some exaggeration). All the spells you mentioned are somewhat iconic. If they cant spider climb then they can levitate which still steps on the rogues niche.

Spells that cant unlock doors or make you invisible seems very strange to me.

What would you want magic to be able to do?

I will note that in my mind the problem isn't what *magic* can do. It's what *wizards* can do. Right now, wizards have pretty much "darn near everything and anything" under their class description umbrella. Even in terms of melee and missle combat, they've often been given plenty of spells that let them compete in that arena (if briefly). And the perennial problems with wizard spells tramping all over the rogue's niche are frequently noted. If they were to announce that (for example) rogues could gain the ability to magically turn invisible or pick locks from a distance, that would be just fine. It reinforces their already marked out niches. The issue comes from our bookish wizard having a "spell for every occasion".

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Spells that cant unlock doors seem very strange to me.

*edited*

I think knock is the dumbest, stupidest, most divorced from physicality spell ever. I hate knock.