Wizards of the Coast/Kenzer & Company License Agreements Expiring

Hard8Staff said:
Probably the first adventure released will be titled "Frandor's Keep". Been working on that for some time already.

Say, y'know what would be cool? In any adventures that are published that have been mentioned in KoDT as being played by the Knights, I'd love to see sidebars that mention how the adventure went for the Untouchable Trio +1.
 

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Hard8Staff said:
the modular rules design (i.e., advanced and basic rules that fit together)

This is a great idea. Anything that makes HM easier to play would go a long way to get more people to play it.

It probably isn't feasible, but I would like to see an rpg come out with the programmed rules format that Avalon Hill did with Squad Leader and Up Front. Basically each chapter of the rules added different concepts and after reading each chapter you were supposed to play a scenario using just those rules. It greatly helped in comprehending the rules and got you started playing much sooner than if you had to read the whole rulebook beforehand. Of course, I guess the only way to do this with an rpg would be to have a solitaire game built into the rules where you played a short encounter after each chapter. I believe one of the Basic D&D sets tried something like this.
 

Kalamar is my favorite setting and I will admit to a lot of worry about this time coming and reading on the Kenzer boards that Kalamar was going to be the official setting for Hackmaster.

But as time went by I realized the great thing about KOK is that while supplements are always nice everything you need to play it is in the orginial KOK setting book. I have talked to people who use the setting but use Fudge, Gurps , Heroes and other rule sets to run a KOK game.

So I stopped worring and realized if I don't like the new Hackmaster so what I can use any rule set I want.

I have yet to be disappointed with a Kenzer product and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
 


mhensley said:
This is a great idea. Anything that makes HM easier to play would go a long way to get more people to play it.

It probably isn't feasible, but I would like to see an rpg come out with the programmed rules format that Avalon Hill did with Squad Leader and Up Front. Basically each chapter of the rules added different concepts and after reading each chapter you were supposed to play a scenario using just those rules. It greatly helped in comprehending the rules and got you started playing much sooner than if you had to read the whole rulebook beforehand. Of course, I guess the only way to do this with an rpg would be to have a solitaire game built into the rules where you played a short encounter after each chapter. I believe one of the Basic D&D sets tried something like this.

We specifically took that approach (Avalon Hill's programmed instruction) with A&8. Perhaps not to the extent they did in Squad Leader but we made an effort to provide some quick start rules and then a series of 'advance rules' that players can add to their game at thier own pace. I'd like to see us take the idea even further in HM5e.
 

jeffh said:
:confused:

Being rules-light would defeat much of the purpose of Hackmaster...

"Killing and breaking things - that's what sums up the HackMaster™ phenomenon."
- HM PHB

Making it easier to play would further the purpose of HM.
 

Jolly_Blackburn said:
We specifically took that approach (Avalon Hill's programmed instruction) with A&8. Perhaps not to the extent they did in Squad Leader but we made an effort to provide some quick start rules and then a series of 'advance rules' that players can add to their game at thier own pace. I'd like to see us take the idea even further in HM5e.


Awesome! You are definitely making me want to check out A&8 even though I've little interest in western rpg's.
 

jeffh said:
:confused:

Being rules-light would defeat much of the purpose of Hackmaster...

I agree, but what I am referring to is some sort of quick start to give new players a taste of it similar to what Troll Lord did recently for Castles & Crusades on FRPGD.
 

Hard8Staff said:
the modular rules design (i.e., advanced and basic rules that fit together) and so on.

OK. Here's my piece of advice on this: (Having not had a chance to look at A&8 yet.)

Make sure you playtest the basic rules more thoroughly than the advanced rules.

The problem I've seen with this in the past is that the developers tend to only play with all the advanced rules. So, when you come to them & say you're having a problem with area X where you've decided to only use the basic rule, they say that the advanced rule fixes it. Advanced rules should add to the basic rules, not fix them.
 

In terms of the new edition: As someone who has seen Hackmaster around but never actually purchased it, here's my list of some conceptions and misconceptions that get generated in the mind of a potential purchaser:

1) I don't happen to go to game stores frequently, so I don't see much of the inside of books I buy on the net. Result: very cautious buyer. That's probably not something a new edition can change much, but there are probably ways (see later points) to make more sales to internet-only buyers.

2) Not knowing what's needed to play. I assume from AD&D that one needs a PHB, MM, and DMG. That may not be the case, and if not, the information's not out there "in my face" enough to make me scour the websites to find out. The initial investment required for three hardback books all at once is higher than I'm willing to pay for an experimental perusal. [edit: Another thing I just thought of - I've assumed the books are still hardbacks - that is what I've seen in stores when I saw HM books the times I've been in stores. It only just this second occurred to me that there might be a softcover option.]

3) Not knowing what's going to be usable in the books in a DIFFERENT game if it turns out I don't want to actually play HM. General utility, even if it's just ideas, is sort of a backup value. If I don't want to play the game, I at least don't feel stupid for having spent the money.

4) Perception on the net that HM is highly complex. Potential buyer frightened off by the idea that the game is designed to be unplayable without lots of work. Some sort of damage control on this perception would go a long way. Whatever damage control on this might already be out there hasn't "hit" me out of nowhere in the course of internet browsing.

5) What I've seen of HM looks like a hell of a lot of fun. The pure-fun hack and slash portrayal I think is a fantastic attraction. That's what has kept me sort of at the edge of buying a PHB rather than just making a "won't ever buy" decision and moving on, as I do with most possible purchases. I wouldn't change that marketing image in a new edition (though I assume you won't be able to use the "Demon god idol" on the cover any more).

6) Also, the parody side of things doesn't turn me off when I read about it, except that I worry it will be too intrusive or make things too complex. Light parody actually appeals to me. Intrusive parody, though, is the concern - not nearly as big a concern as the other ones listed here.

7) I've seen that at one point you were giving away PHBs, or offering them at a deep discount. That strategy is one that would allay a lot of my buying concerns (obviously). I think a free basic "play almost immediately" pdf would also help. I happened to miss the free offer, but even reading the thread about it brought me to the HM site. If there'd been a free pdf (there might be, I just didn't see it) I would definitely have downloaded it. Normally when I download a pdf I don't do much with it, because I hate pdfs, but if I wanted to get my group started on HM, it's good to have something for the players to download without spending money up front. This worked for a trial attempt on C&C (failed, but players enjoyed it enough to buy a couple of copies of the books before the editing problems in the C&C 1st printing pissed them off so much they started to make fun of the game itself). Point being, though, the DM being able to say "Let's try it out - just download these quick-start rules" goes a long way toward getting the game onto a table and later purchased.

8) Can't think of anything else. Hope this helps as a profile of the "almost buyer." It's worth mentioning that on a single government salary with kids, I probably don't have the gaming budget of most 39 year old players, and that probably puts me outside the profile of your ideal customer base. Still, I think these points probably apply to lots of other people, just with a lower threshhold for making the jump to actually spending money.

Edit: also, the fact that a new edition is coming out at some point is a problem, too, at this point. I assume (whether correctly or incorrectly) that if I buy the current edition it will be superceded. As a 1e player, I'm already really tired of being in that boat. Since that news is now out, you probably ought to start telling fans what to do about it and how to think about it.
 
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