Wizards of the Coast LAYOFFS

[JLXC]

Screw you guys in the "It's normal" boat.

I think it's terrible that companies literally USE people. Sure as Americans (many of you) think using people to get a profit and then firing them is all well and good. I feel great sympathy for the people, and my Own sources tell me this might be a big layoff affecting many people ONLY at WotC. The cuts are directed at them. Many of these people might lose their jobs as soon as Thursday and those in WOTC have not been informed and will only be informed by a press release when they do get canned. It's horrible and EVIL. Many of these people have been told they will have a career in this company not "Well thanks for making us a profit, now go get another job!"

Defending this Corporate behavior is what allows it to happen. Thanks a lot.

 

[KDLadage]

...while I have no figures on the sales, debt load, etc of Hasbro and WotC before they were purchased. It stands to reason that...

In matters of economics, rarely does anything that "stands to reason" turn out to be true... plus:

...combine that debtload with the relatively high cost of printing, production, etc and the assertion that the core books are largely being sold at a loss and you have a certain degree of riskiness...

Please know what it is that you speak of. Preferably before you hit the SUBMIT REPLY button.

Ryan Dancey and a metric butt-tonne of other WotC employees have already stated -- many, many times -- that the core books, even at the $20 price-tag where not losing money. They made a lot of money on those sales. Thanks to economies of scale -- every single PHB, MM and DMG turned a profit.

These were not loss leaders.

Ever.

Sorry. I just happen to hate it when people continuously spout out that these lost money.

...as everyone says the majority of the core products for 3e are out already and while revenues are liable to be solid and might even increase due to the increase in the base cost of the 3e corebooks there is really no reason to suggest that sales will continue to grow at say 10-15% a year...

WotC produces much more than 3e. We, as outside observers have no idea what or where WotC is cutting people.

Speculations like this -- as ill-informed as it is -- can do no good, and can (if in the wrong place at the wrong time) cause considerable harm. I suggest that if you are going to make this sort of conjecture, make it educated conjecture and get your facts straight first.

Please -- I am not trying to be offensive, but this sort of talk can actually hurt people. In real ways. Know what you are talking about.

...Hasbro therefore expects the WotC division to either keep up with sales goals which it might not be doing or decrease costs...

As has been pointed out in several of the areas where this has been reported, Hasbro had nothing to do with these cuts. This was strictly internal to WotC -- as far as we know, they are running the show on this layoff.

Making Hasbro out to be some sort of Make Money or Die! Machievellian organization is entirely unfair, and unfounded.

snipped remaining unfounded speculation

Please people. This is not the way to discuss this sort of thing...

 

[Christian]

Many of these people might lose their jobs as soon as Thursday and those in WOTC have not been informed and will only be informed by a press release when they do get canned.

If that's true, then that certainly indefensible behavior on the part of Hasbro/WOTC. Do you have any evidence that this is the case? I know that in many states, there's a certain amount of notice that must be given, or at least a severance package that includes continuation of pay and benefits for a certain period. Don't know about Washington, though ...

The truth is, nobobdy really knows for certain how much business a company will be able to do, and if they don't meet projections, they may not be able to pay as many people as they hired based on those too-optimistic projections. This happens, and there's no point screaming about it. One just hopes that companies who find themselves in this situation handle it ethically and responsibly.

And before you tell me how easy it is for me to talk with a secure job, let me just say . My sixth anniversary with the company I work for will be next month (or was last December, if you count the time I worked for them on a temp contract before they hired me permanently). Sometime between then and June or so, I'll be out of a job. The company announced in December that this location is going to be closed permanently sometime in the second quarter; a few people have been placed elsewhere in the company, but most of us are being laid off. I'm not angry or bitter; the company has never made a profit, and I'm honestly surprised they haven't completely folded yet. Maybe they'll be able to fix their profitability problems with a smaller workforce, I don't know. But they're giving everyone as much notice as they can before they are on the cut list, a decent (although certainly not generous) severance package, and I'm encouraged to take time off for job interviews. I don't know what more they could do-I don't think it would be less troublesome if they just kept everyone on until the paychecks started bouncing, do you?

 

[Vuron]

I'm by no means supporting the actions taken but simply mentioning them as a fact of life in the current business world. I for one don't quite believe in the usage of layoffs for maintaining profit margins and definitely frown on the assertion that layoffs are done to protect a company from going under. The truth is that a company like TSR was able to function for a long period of time under crippling debt load and bloated management. Layoffs are often the easiest method of bringing costs under control but generally not the best unless there are overwhelming changes to the marketplace. The fact of the matter is that layoffs generally sap morale and if you come out of a downturn and need postive growth again you have to retrain employees.

Don't get me wrong I have every sympathy for those involved in the layoffs and those that have to deal with the aftermath but I do think this was a logical outcome of management decisions over the course of purchasing TSR and selling the company to Hasbro.

 

[Wolfspider]

Screw you guys in the "It's normal" boat.

Don't get personal. That's one sure way to turn this otherwise informative thread into a flamewar and get it locked down.

I never said that it was good or moral to lay people off. I just said that it should not come as something unexpected. I don't condone or support heartless business practices, but I don't find them very surprising either. It's all about profits and keeping Wizards in the black.

I worked for seven years as an adjunct at a college teaching up to seven classes a semester. I was a well-known and respected member of the faculty. Then one semester I was told that there were simply no classes for me to teach. I had no time to make plans. Then again, I didn't need time. I had a back-up plan. See, I always understand that my job was semester to semester. It hurt a little to be discarded this way, but I was prepared for it. Being prepared helped a lot.

Now I have a more secure job (well, anything's more secure than being a fly-by-semester adjunct) that pays twice as much (that's not saying much, really). I have an office with a window. I have insurance and benefits and vacation days, none of which I had at my previous job.

Again, the RPG companies are not very stable--even Wizards of the Coast. The layouts that have happened over the last couple years have proved that. You always need a backup plan.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Screw you guys in the "It's normal" boat.

I think it's terrible that companies literally USE people. Sure as Americans (many of you) think using people to get a profit and then firing them is all well and good. I feel great sympathy for the people, and my Own sources tell me this might be a big layoff affecting many people ONLY at WotC. The cuts are directed at them. Many of these people might lose their jobs as soon as Thursday and those in WOTC have not been informed and will only be informed by a press release when they do get canned. It's horrible and EVIL. Many of these people have been told they will have a career in this company not "Well thanks for making us a profit, now go get another job!"

Defending this Corporate behavior is what allows it to happen. Thanks a lot.

First, I don't think anyone's defending it. If you look at what I said, the point was that this economy has people out of work everywhere, regardless of the industry. So, while it's lousy that they are getting laid off, we wouldn't know about it at all if it wasn't for the fact that they make D&D (I know I wouldn't). Just like I wouldn't expect you to have heard of the place my brother-in-law worked at for 15 year and which recently went under.

Basically, if people don't want to be at the whim of a corporation, they need to become self-employed. That's not easy to do. So we have to take jobs at places that can fire us. Even that isn't easy now; believe me, after months of searching without success, I know.

So that's why I'm discussing the future of D&D side of it. The bigger picture is too far off-topic for me, and too frustrating, in this instance.

 

[Caliban]

Can 4e be far away?

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Caliban makes a good point. If WotC ends up cut to the bone, and D&D is a cut that is made eventually, I'd expect Hasbro/WotC/whoever to sell D&D to someone else. Then, we probably would see a 4e much sooner than we expected.

 

[Greatwyrm]

Even when agencies do offer insurance its at a higher cost than most companies do.

The insurance rates being higher at temp agencies are a direct result of their high rate of turnover. Insurance companies don't like randomness like we gamers do. Unpredictable demographics mean more risk; more risk means higher rates.

--New topic--

I am not at all concerned with the survivability of D&D. Let's not forget that during it's lifetime it has survived an unfriendly takeover within the company, TSR's bankruptcy, WotC's buyout of TSR, and Hasbro's buyout of WotC. It has certainly seen worse than layoffs, as far as threats to it's continuing as a product.

Properties that are proven sellers will be picked up by someone, somewhere. If Hasbro went out of business completely tomorrow, and took WotC with it, by the end of the week somebody would be trying to stike a deal for the D&D properties.

Even Rolemaster managed to survive ICE's sudden bankruptcy. I don't recall RM being the market force D&D was/is.

--New topic--

As far as layoffs in general, yes, they suck. I've been there, I know. I hope the people affected didn't find out via press release and were at least sent a memo or something.

Let's be realistic, though. A for-profit corporation has a legal obligation to try to make money for it's shareholders. If that means layoffs, that is what they have to do.

I go to work and enjoy my job. However, I know that if the company is suffering and people have to be cut, I could very well be one of them. Anyone who isn't self-employed, under contract, or perhaps in a family business is in the exact same situation. That's just how life is.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Screw you guys in the "It's normal" boat... It's horrible and EVIL... Defending this Corporate behavior is what allows it to happen. Thanks a lot.

Welcome to capitalism.

Basically, if people don't want to be at the whim of a corporation, they need to become self-employed.

Thanks for the shot of reality, Colonel.

It's not just corporations, either. Even small, privately owned businesses have to let people go in tough times, and in most cases then, you're just completely screwed. You get a personal apology from the owner, perhaps.

Hasbro has very generous severance packages as well as outplacement counseling. Yes, they are a huge corporation, but they do their best.

If you don't like it, start your own business. The world does not owe you a living.


Wulf