D&D (2024) Wizards of the Coast promises to release more “CRPGs that are going to be as serious as BG3” without Larian

It's easy and cheep to make a game devoid of jokes, it's hardly something to aspire to or boast about.
devoid of jokes is not the same as serious / mature, BG3 had jokes.

Also, talk is cheap, of course they want to make a game that sells well, that kinda goes without saying. I am not aware of anyone producing games that do not want that…

If what they wanted to say is that they want to make another AAA game (which seems to be your interpretation) they could have used those words, instead they used ‘serious’, AAA is implicit / taken for granted
 
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Actually, that's not what they are saying. In this context "serious" means "important" not "joke free". There is plenty of jokey stuff in BG3.
You are assuming that.

John Hight might mean that. He's been involved with CRPGs before. But he's also been an executive producer for over 30 years (a role which can be close to or very distant from production, more commonly the latter with videogames), so it's also entirely possible he's just out-of-touch and doesn't understand what made BG3 successful, and thinks is it is a "serious" game when it definitely isn't most of the time.

Being real, I don't believe him re: WotC making "serious" AAA CRPGs in either sense. I don't think WotC has it in them to stick through the development period of a "serious" AAA CRPG. To build a serious CRPG WotC would need the following:

1) An engine

And not just an off-the-shelf engine, because they have to build a CRPG within an off-the-shelf engine. This isn't easy to do. It especially isn't easy to do what Larian did, which is to have an engine that has individual objects you can mess with, rather than basically fixed "scenery". They developed that over three games, refining it each time.

2) People who can design gameplay well for a CRPG.

The big issue here is they need to be able to judge this successfully, and how are they going to do that? It's really hard if you haven't been making CRPGs with people for ages. Again, Larian (and for that matter Obsidian) had teams that gradually worked on larger project over many years.

3) Good writers.

This is incredibly challenging, and there's absolutely no easy way to do it. You can't just hire people "off the shelf". People who have written good games are not necessarily all-round good writers nor team players (I'm not going to name names but there's a certain videogame writer who is basically unemployable except as an "additional writing" contractor, despite a stellar early career, because he's 100% not a team player, he's a diva). There's a real "too many chefs" syndrome here. I know keep going back to Larian, but they must have used exquisite judgement and experience because the two people they hired to LEAD BG3's writing, who lead it incredibly successfully, had ZERO experience writing videogames, and indeed one of them had nearly-zero experience writing fiction (but her massive influence on the story of BG3 is clear - she basically studied identity and trauma from an artistic and philosophical perspective - and what are two of the main themes of BG3? Identity and trauma and how they interact!). I don't believe for a second someone just coming in and hiring a team is going to manage something like that, unless it's by sheer luck! Plus you need strong leadership and vision with the writing to keep everyone on the same page.

4) Time and money!

This is a big one! Time is money, money is time with videogame development. To develop a "serious" AAA CRPG, you're going to need 200-400 people. You're going to need them for at least 4 years. A rule of thumb is that an employee in a company like this costs you $100k US/year, on average (thats costs the company which is not the same as their salary). So let's say 200 employees for 4 years.

That's $80m, which, yeah is towards the bottom end of AAA spending these days.

Does WotC have the balls to invest $80m in a game? Maybe, but I'm skeptical that they will. And that's pretty much the minimum. More realistic would be 300 people for 5 years. $150m - which is more like what BG3 seems to have cost - and BG3 actually had cheaper employees than $100k per person because they used people in the EU, not the US.

I think it's much more likely we'll see WotC blow some tens of millions on attempting to form AAA videogame teams, and as soon as one of them flops, Hasbro/WotC will just try and sell off the videogames division entirely. Or just fire them.
 

People just have to accept that BG3 was a generational game. You can't create a pipeline to create more generational games. Nothing that gets produced that is trying to chase the BG3 audience is going to recapture the particular alchemy that created BG3.
 

People just have to accept that BG3 was a generational game. You can't create a pipeline to create more generational games. Nothing that gets produced that is trying to chase the BG3 audience is going to recapture the particular alchemy that created BG3.
And Larian knows this, hence why they aren't doing BG4.
 

It would be unfortunate if WotC decided to go too "family friendly" with whatever they do for a follow up
It wouldn't be "unfortunate", it would be a absolutely a guarantee that the game was a flop. A hard guarantee. People do not buy "family-friendly" CRPGs nor story-RPGs (i.e. Witcher, Mass Effect, etc.). That's a big part of why there are no AA or AAA "family-friendly" CRPGs and the only story RPGs which even arguably are were relatively unsuccessful.

BG3 might be more graphic than most (but only because it has third-person mocap'd 3D cutscenes - and none of them as graphic as say, the "climactic" sex scenes in Mass Effect: Andromeda!)

but I think it would be even worse if they learned the wrong less and went over the top with the NSFW stuff without having any of larian's heart or humor.
In all terms of the game's success, heartless NSFW would sell and review better than "family-friendly" (heartless or otherwise - plus there's absolutely no reason to think writers who would do heartless NSFW would write heartful family-friendly - that's just not how things work), that would, in fact, be better. That's a cold fact of CRPGs and their audience. Their audience is a mixture of like, 40-something and older nerdy guys, who, on the whole, like that sort of thing (sorry but as a group we do), and a much larger, more gender-diverse (lotta women and NB people and so on) but equally nerdy group of 20-30-somethings who love stuff like romantasy, horny fan fiction (writing or reading), and so on.

This is how you sell 20m copies. That's how Astarion becomes an absolute icon.

You don't sell 20m copies by not having a bunch of fabulously over-the-top characters. You don't sell by not having romances (sorry Josh Sawyer, Carrie Patel, I love you both, but you are literally significantly hurting the sales of your games by being opposed to romances and seeking to minimize or remove them). You don't sell by being "family-friendly". Kids of the "family-friendly" age generally are not playing nor interested in CRPGs in 2025 - they're not us in the 1990s, sorry (and frankly even 1990s CRPGs often had sex scenes - albeit usually written - I think the first one I came across, aged 11, was in The Savage Empire, which has at least one).

As a former BG3 obsessed addict, I've been hugely impressed by Owlcat games' take on Rogue Trader. So much that I want to give their Pathfinder games a fair shake (and I don't even like Pathfinder).
I wouldn't advise it.

Owlcat are a company who have improved and bounds.

But that means when you go back to their earlier work, it's leaps and bounds worse. Kingmaker is pretty horribly written, has really annoying meta-gameplay that you basically need to "research" in order to play the game, and just isn't very fun. Wrath of the Righteous is a lot better-written, but also has different but also annoying meta-gameplay and tedious required minigames (which you can turn off, but then you miss significant stuff!). Rogue Trader was the first time they really nailed that formula. The ship combat minigames are okay, the writing is the best they've ever done, and by a margin, and the gameplay is generally a lot more engaging than trying to slog through trillions of PF1E encounters, which were designed for RtwP in both Pathfinder games, so turn-based modes just makes it into a MEGA SLOG!
 

People just have to accept that BG3 was a generational game. You can't create a pipeline to create more generational games. Nothing that gets produced that is trying to chase the BG3 audience is going to recapture the particular alchemy that created BG3.
Nah, you can.

C.f. Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077. Both are "generational games". Sure, they released 2077 too early trying to get it on old-gen consoles, horrible mistake, but they made up for it, and Cyberpunk 2077 2.0 + the DLC is probably the best RPG of this generation - yeah better than BG3 in terms of writing and ideas (though obviously it's totally fair to not enjoy the gameplay of 2077 or BG3 or w/e - both a very well-written). I don't doubt Witcher 4 and Cyberpunk 2 (its current working title) will be similarly incredible. Nor do I doubt Elden Ring 2 or whatever full-length AAA Miyazaki at FromSoft does next will be "generational".

If Larian's "Excalibur" game they're working on is another full-size AAA CRPG, which it increasingly sounds like it is, I don't doubt it'll be quite comparable to BG3 in terms of quality of writing. Gameplay? I worry, because Swen is an eejit (I say this with love) who genuinely thinks DOS2 had better gameplay than BG3 (he literally said it). He's wrong - terribly wrong - and that the only thing I could foresee holding back Larian's "Excalibur" really.

(Original Larian said they were working on three smaller games - that seems to have changed - it sounds like almost all of them are working on "Excalibur" now.)

Bioware also dropped multiple "generational" RPGs in a row, and only when EA mandated them to make more money annually and they foolishly decided to make a GaaS game did things go wrong.

Indeed, the fallout of GaaS is why DAV was bad:


TLDR: Bioware designed DA4 as a single-player game for years then, got told "Nope, you've got to make a GaaS game, and also, change the tone so it's like MCU!", so tore up what they'd done and worked on that for years, then got told "Oh hell, GaaS games are dying left and right, you gotta make it single player! Also fix the tone, MCU-tone is so over!", so attempted to do that, but had limited success.
 

It wouldn't be "unfortunate", it would be a absolutely a guarantee that the game was a flop. A hard guarantee. People do not buy "family-friendly" CRPGs nor story-RPGs (i.e. Witcher, Mass Effect, etc.). That's a big part of why there are no AA or AAA "family-friendly" CRPGs and the only story RPGs which even arguably are were relatively unsuccessful.

BG3 might be more graphic than most (but only because it has third-person mocap'd 3D cutscenes - and none of them as graphic as say, the "climactic" sex scenes in Mass Effect: Andromeda!)


In all terms of the game's success, heartless NSFW would sell and review better than "family-friendly" (heartless or otherwise - plus there's absolutely no reason to think writers who would do heartless NSFW would write heartful family-friendly - that's just not how things work), that would, in fact, be better. That's a cold fact of CRPGs and their audience. Their audience is a mixture of like, 40-something and older nerdy guys, who, on the whole, like that sort of thing (sorry but as a group we do), and a much larger, more gender-diverse (lotta women and NB people and so on) but equally nerdy group of 20-30-somethings who love stuff like romantasy, horny fan fiction (writing or reading), and so on.

This is how you sell 20m copies. That's how Astarion becomes an absolute icon.

You don't sell 20m copies by not having a bunch of fabulously over-the-top characters. You don't sell by not having romances (sorry Josh Sawyer, Carrie Patel, I love you both, but you are literally significantly hurting the sales of your games by being opposed to romances and seeking to minimize or remove them). You don't sell by being "family-friendly". Kids of the "family-friendly" age generally are not playing nor interested in CRPGs in 2025 - they're not us in the 1990s, sorry (and frankly even 1990s CRPGs often had sex scenes - albeit usually written - I think the first one I came across, aged 11, was in The Savage Empire, which has at least one).
I feel like you completely ignored the part about Larian's heart and humor, and sort of seem like you think that i think NSFW Bad. Weird.

What I said was that there's a non-zero, even good, chance that WotC will make a "BG4" that is full of boobs but devoid of brains and screw it up. People don't like stupidity or crassness for crassness sake, either.
 

I feel like you completely ignored the part about Larian's heart and humor, and sort of seem like you think that i think NSFW Bad. Weird.
I don't think you think that, actually. Sorry if it came across that way!

I think you think family-friendly might sell or review ok. It won't. From a success perspective, it's NSFW or bust with CRPGs. Even if you fail to have heart and humour, you'll make more money and get better reviews (two things that are intertwined anyway) if you go NSFW.

What I said was that there's a non-zero, even good, chance that WotC will make a "BG4" that is full of boobs but devoid of brains and screw it up. People don't like stupidity or crassness for crassness sake, either.
Yeah... but they like a mediocre RPG with boobs/sex/gore/horror a lot better than an equally mediocre CRPG no boobs/romance/gore/horror or whatever. Even the crassest, most awful, most unnecessarily boobs and gore-filled games tend to sell a lot more copies than they should, if we were just looking at their gameplay, graphics, etc. I can give specific examples if wanted.

And the real risk that WotC, as part of D&D's "brand strategy" determine that a D&D game must be family-friendly or like PG-13 or similar. And no amount of heart is going to save that in the CRPG market.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm pointing out something that's kind of an oddity about primarily single-player videogames specifically. It's not true of films, for example.
 


This is an interesting comment. I suppose the NSFW factor has to do with the gaming being in private space or public space.
I think that's a big part of it yeah, though some pretty NFSW-adjacent games like Zenless Zero Zone are multiplayer, they're multiplayer in a way where other people don't interact with you much (if at all). That's more like horny dolly dress (which is absolutely a thing - just look at the mods for any highly moddable 3D RPG!) up than sex scenes though.
 

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