Wizards Presents: Inside the making of 4th edition, plus new art

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

More like 75% porn, 15% bitching and 10% whining

70 % porn, 15 % bitching, 10 % whining, 5 % bad mathematics, and 10 % made up statistics.

 

[BASHMAN]

I agree with those who have strongly criticized the marketing. I am actually still interested in 4e, at least to see if it might be an improvement. But I feel like I am interested in it largely despite of the marketing and not because of it. The marketing largely has made me feel talked down to by the designers. It think the key difference was that with 3e, the designers did the marketing by showing bits and pieces of what was coming, and what we saw was interesting. This time they are largely trying to keep things secret, while continuously talking at us to tell us that they know better and we just have to belive them that it is "really cool". Also, a lot of things just seem like marketing gimmicks to get me to spend more money than I need to spend to enjoy the game. I wish they would focus on making a great product rather than trying to force me into paying for things I don't want. If the new rules are great, then I will like them and I'll gladly pay for stuff to enjoy the new edition. If they are not, no amount of internet gimmicks and no amount of bloggers telling me it is "cool" is going to force to to spend money.

QFT. I think calling Races & Classes a preview of 4e was less than honest, since there will be no mechanical information at all therein (which they are now admitting). People may have been expecting the "countdown to 3e" type of mechanical info in such a document-- which would have made it worth buying to some who really wanted to know the mechanics. Now they say it will be essentially that 30 years of D&D book again-- with nice art, and a bunch of whistful, fluff-filled articles, and probably a lot by the lady that wrote this unfortunately. It will be bought by the same people who bought the 30 years of D&D-- sentimental collectors who gladly buy anything made by WotC.

At least they have dropped the act, and are being honest about what the book is... now. Nobody is going to buy this thinking that it explains how fighters in 4e are different from fighters in 3.x or learn what the class abilities of the warlord are. They know it will have pictures of fighters and warlords, and articles about what people were feeling/thinking when they wrote the rules, and about brownies and 3rd grade teachers.

 

[Stalker0]

More like 75% porn, 15% bitching and 10% whining

Proving once again that porn increases bitching, and decreases whining

 

[Dire Bare]

The more I hear about these two books, the more I am convinced that they are NOT preview books. They are actually interesting essays about RPG designing. As such, it doesn't even matter if the 4e tidbits are going to be final, because they're just examples. Anyone who buys these books as a preview is going to be very disappointed... don't say you weren't warned

Huh? So, these books will talk about the design process for 4e, showcase 4e artwork, give us info on the cosmology (or "fluff") of 4e, but don't really count as previews as there are no (or little) mechanics given?

Sounds like a preview to me. But I'm literal like that.

QFT. I think calling Races & Classes a preview of 4e was less than honest, since there will be no mechanical information at all therein (which they are now admitting)

Less than honest? They've ALWAYS been upfront that there would be no mechanics in the "Wizards Presents" preview books. From Day One, I'm positive. There has been no dishonesty whatsoever, to even say that is ridiculous. Poor marketing on the books? Sure. But dishonesty? Come on!

 

[Dire Bare]

Yes, and Dane Cook also bills himself as a "comedian".

Oh SNAP!

 

[The Little Raven]

Well, if WoTC had a better track record, I wouldn't worry about such things. They've reused art before. Some of it very recently. The $29.95 FR history book for example. I mean, much of that came from the web no? The art reused no? And full cover price?

Grand History had reused art because the book was a spur of the moment, non-edition product, and the writer used the incredibly small art budget for something useful: detailed maps. Now, maybe you wanted some new Drizzt pictures or something, but having maps in a historical supplement like that is far more useful.

 

[The Little Raven]

QFT. People may have been expecting the "countdown to 3e" type of mechanical info in such a document-- which would have made it worth buying to some who really wanted to know the mechanics.

Anyone who was expecting this was simply ignoring everything Wizards said about the project and assigned their own content to it, so it's their own fault if they're disappointed. Hell, if I went into Spider-Man 3 expecting the Silver Surfer to show up, I'd be disappointed, but it's my own fault for creating wholesale fiction about what will be in the product. It has always been billed as a preview for concepts and fluff with no mechanics.

Now they say it will be essentially that 30 years of D&D book again-- with nice art, and a bunch of whistful, fluff-filled articles, and probably a lot by the lady that wrote this unfortunately. It will be bought by the same people who bought the 30 years of D&D-- sentimental collectors who gladly buy anything made by WotC.

Try reading the blog post more carefully. It flat out states that these books deal with the development of 4th Edition only.

At least they have dropped the act, and are being honest about what the book is... now. Nobody is going to buy this thinking that it explains how fighters in 4e are different from fighters in 3.x or learn what the class abilities of the warlord are. They know it will have pictures of fighters and warlords, and articles about what people were feeling/thinking when they wrote the rules, and about brownies and 3rd grade teachers.

They've been abundantly clear about these books being non-mechanical, with conceptual design and fluff. If you thought they were something else, it's your own fault for assigning some other content to the book. They've never stated it was anything that what they say now.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Grand History had reused art because the book was a spur of the moment, non-edition product, and the writer used the incredibly small art budget for something useful: detailed maps. Now, maybe you wanted some new Drizzt pictures or something, but having maps in a historical supplement like that is far more useful.

And yet the cover price was unchanged from other books in a similiar format.

How odd.

 

[The Little Raven]

And yet the cover price was unchanged from other books in a similiar format.

So, Wizards should lower the price because some people think they should get it cheaper because instead of new pictures of elves stabbing dragons, they used the budget for something useful in context for the product?

And what other RPG supplements are there for a Grand History of <Campaign Setting> for you to make this comparison?

 

[JoeGKushner]

So, Wizards should lower the price because some people think they should get it cheaper because instead of new pictures of elves stabbing dragons, they used the budget for something useful in context for the product?

And what other RPG supplements are there for a Grand History of <Campaign Setting> for you to make this comparison?

Perhaps I'm mistaken but didn't most of the time line (research) for the FR book come from a certain website? (Candlekeep no?)

And reused art? Including Warforged no? So resued and sloppy use of art no?

This book was 160 pages, same size format as the gaming books. This isn't designed as an aid for FR fiction readers. If it was, better to say like DK publishing handle something of that nature or some of those nice companies that do the various Atlas books.

The gaming books, mostly with new art (a few reuses here and there but few if any that I recall that are all resued art) and at 160 pages for the same price. New art, new game mechanics and new text.

For the same price.

So no, wizards should lower the price because people can get a lot of the same information for free and one of the things that draws people to these books, the art, is resued. If they could lower the price on the Rules Compendium, they could've done the same thing here.

"The Grand History of the Realms chronicles the rich history of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, presenting a detailed timeline accompanied by essays from Elminster of Shadowdale and other Realmslore experts. Although not a game supplement, it serves as a handy reference guide for players and Dungeon Masters seeking information on specific historical events. In addition, the book features an exclusive Forgotten Realms short story by best-selling author R.A. Salvatore and new revelations for Realmslore aficionados."

That's a description from Amazon. Apparently many have noted that there is actually no short story. And yet it's been in that write up form for months so WoTC has been too... busy to correct even that error.

Damn shame.