Wizards Presents: Inside the making of 4th edition, plus new art

[The Little Raven]

Perhaps I'm mistaken but didn't most of the time line (research) for the FR book come from a certain website? (Candlekeep no?)

It did. However, it was written by Brian R. James, the guy whose name is on the cover of the book. Wizards offered to turn his fan timeline into a real product so that he would be recognized and compensated for the tons of hard work he put into it.

And reused art? Including Warforged no? So resued and sloppy use of art no?

Reused art, yes. As explained, when your option is "more elf pictures," or "maps of places we never detailed in previous supplements, in order to give people something new and useful," you give your customers maximum gain by providing them with the maps.

As for that art flub with the Warforged... meh... happens. No use dwelling on it.

This book was 160 pages, same size format as the gaming books. This isn't designed as an aid for FR fiction readers. If it was, better to say like DK publishing handle something of that nature or some of those nice companies that do the various Atlas books.

It's very much an aid for FR fiction readers. Ever wonder how all the novels relate to eachother, timeline-wise? Well, now you can find out. Ever read about a character in a novel, and want to see where else he shows up? Well, now you can find out.

The gaming books, mostly with new art (a few reuses here and there but few if any that I recall that are all resued art) and at 160 pages for the same price. New art, new game mechanics and new text.

To most people, this is new text (and there is also a bunch of new text, even for those familiar with the old Candlekeep version). Not everyone is a Candlekeep nerd, you know. There is a huge market outside of the people that navigate D&D fan-sites. And for being 160 pages, this book crams in TONS of information.

For the same price.

Color printing and hardcover binding ain't cheap.

So no, wizards should lower the price because people can get a lot of the same information for free and one of the things that draws people to these books, the art, is resued. If they could lower the price on the Rules Compendium, they could've done the same thing here.

Then go download the old version, if you don't want to pay for the new one. It's that simple. You won't get the maps or the additional fleshing out provided by Ed Greenwood.

That's a description from Amazon. Apparently many have noted that there is actually no short story. And yet it's been in that write up form for months so WoTC has been too... busy to correct even that error.

Suddenly it's WotC's job to correct Amazon's inaccurate copy information, even though Wizards' copy information on their site, and in catalogs, is correct? Amazon is renowned for putting up faulty information, since they hardly ever correct anything. Don't try and blame Wizards for Amazon being wrong.

 

[JoeGKushner]

It did. However, it was written by Brian R. James, the guy whose name is on the cover of the book. Wizards offered to turn his fan timeline into a real product so that he would be recognized and compensated for the tons of hard work he put into it.

So most of the work is done already. It's not like they had to scrabble.

Reused art, yes. As explained, when your option is "more elf pictures," or "maps of places we never detailed in previous supplements, in order to give people something new and useful," you give your customers maximum gain by providing them with the maps.

As for that art flub with the Warforged... meh... happens. No use dwelling on it.

Only for paying for it eh?

It It's very much an aid for FR fiction readers. Ever wonder how all the novels relate to eachother, timeline-wise? Well, now you can find out. Ever read about a character in a novel, and want to see where else he shows up? Well, now you can find out.

And yet other fiction lines don't make books this size eh? Very strange that.

It
To most people, this is new text (and there is also a bunch of new text, even for those familiar with the old Candlekeep version). Not everyone is a Candlekeep nerd, you know. There is a huge market outside of the people that navigate D&D fan-sites. And for being 160 pages, this book crams in TONS of information.

But it's not a matter of "most people." If a tree falls in the forest, it still makes nose.

It
Color printing and hardcover binding ain't cheap.

No, but reprinted art is cheaper than new art.

It
Then go download the old version, if you don't want to pay for the new one. It's that simple. You won't get the maps or the additional fleshing out provided by Ed Greenwood.

True dat but I don't think it's worth full price so I haven't bought it.

It Suddenly it's WotC's job to correct Amazon's inaccurate copy information, even though Wizards' copy information on their site, and in catalogs, is correct? Amazon is renowned for putting up faulty information, since they hardly ever correct anything. Don't try and blame Wizards for Amazon being wrong.

Uh... if I'm a publisher, it's certainly my job to make sure that one of the largest sellers of my product is providing the correct information.

 

[Shortman McLeod]

More like 75% porn, 15% bitching and 10% whining

Actually, by my calculations it's 65% porn, 10% online gambling, 10% hate groups, and 10% bitching and 5% whining.

 

[BASHMAN]

1. Try reading the blog post more carefully. It flat out states that these books deal with the development of 4th Edition only.

2. They've been abundantly clear about these books being non-mechanical, with conceptual design and fluff. If you thought they were something else, it's your own fault for assigning some other content to the book. They've never stated it was anything that what they say now.

Point 1- I didn't mean they will be the same thing as 30 years of D&D. I know it is about 4th ed only. I mean that it will be the same style of book as the 30 years book-- one of fluff, cheezarama articles, mitigated by good art-- though only worth buying to a die-hard collector as it has no game value.

2. No-- they TITLED THE BOOK: Wizards Presents: Races & Classes. Stupid me for thinking that it would give actual info about the races and classes? Boy I must be some kind of mental case for thinking that. It was only when Rouse was posting on here in another thread about these books (the one linking to the amazon page for it) that I heard there would be no mechanical info in them. I and several other people in the thread had previously believed that it would be a presentation by Wizards on the Races and Classes of 4th edition D&D. It should have been titled: Wizards Presents-- pictures and silly articles about Races & Classes in 4th ed.

 

[Zamkaizer]

It should have been titled: Wizards Presents-- pictures and silly articles about Races & Classes in 4th ed.

Wizards can't seem to name anything right in 4th Ed.

My Suggestion -- Wizard's Presents: Riposting Aryans

 

[delericho]

I'm glad Wizards have been clear about what is and is not in the book. I won't be buying it.

 

[Dire Bare]

No-- they TITLED THE BOOK: Wizards Presents: Races & Classes. Stupid me for thinking that it would give actual info about the races and classes? Boy I must be some kind of mental case for thinking that. It was only when Rouse was posting on here in another thread about these books (the one linking to the amazon page for it) that I heard there would be no mechanical info in them. I and several other people in the thread had previously believed that it would be a presentation by Wizards on the Races and Classes of 4th edition D&D. It should have been titled: Wizards Presents-- pictures and silly articles about Races & Classes in 4th ed.

Wizards has been quite clear from the beginning what this book contains. However, if you missed that, that's cool. If you knew nothing about the book except the title, you might just expect to see some preview mechanical info on the new game. That's a natural assumption.

However, when you later find out that it won't contain any mechanics, just "fluff" . . . and that's been the plan from the beginning and it's been made abundantly clear by WotC that's the case . . . well, you can certainly be bummed out the books won't contain what you want, but to get all whiny about it is a bit silly.

While you personally may not feel the books will appeal to you, and that's fair . . . all you have to do is read this thread to know there are plenty of us who are attracted to this sort of product. It's not going to be a book of silly articles and silly pictures, and just because it's not a game book doesn't mean it holds no value.

Give the hyperbole a rest and don't worry about books that don't appeal to you and that you won't buy. Let us who are excited for the product, well, be excited!

 

[Stone Dog]

If a tree falls in the forest, it still makes nose.

Out of the whole thread, this is the only thing that catches my interest. I think it will become a koan.

 

[The Little Raven]

Only for paying for it eh?

Okay, then tell me the rational point to dwelling on this.

And yet other fiction lines don't make books this size eh? Very strange that.

God forbid one fiction line do something different from others.

But it's not a matter of "most people." If a tree falls in the forest, it still makes nose.

Yes, it is. Their target audience is outside the Candlekeep crowd, so basing their publishing on whether a small group of nerds already has the information as opposed to the larger group is silly. Internet communities are small potatoes compared to the whole of the market they're reaching for.

No, but reprinted art is cheaper than new art.

Exactly. Which is why they spent that money on new maps. Are you trying to argue that another picture of Drizzt fighting something would be money better spent than seeing what Faerun looked like under Netheril?

Uh... if I'm a publisher, it's certainly my job to make sure that one of the largest sellers of my product is providing the correct information.

And how exactly do they force them to change anything? The copy information has been correct on Wizards and every other site aside from Amazon for months. Amazon is renowned for making mistakes with products.

Why do you seem to want to blame Wizards because some 3rd party retailer can't keep their own catalog straight? Why can't you accept that Amazon s up pretty often? Is it simply that you have some anti-WotC feelings because of 4e, so you blame them for anything you can?

 

[The Little Raven]

2. No-- they TITLED THE BOOK: Wizards Presents: Races & Classes. Stupid me for thinking that it would give actual info about the races and classes?

Here's the ad copy that has been up since we saw the cover some time ago.

"A behind-the-scenes exploration of the Dungeons & Dragons(R) game.

This lavishly illustrated book gives roleplaying game fans a unique, behind-the-curtain glimpse into the making of the Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game. The book contains essays and asides from the game's premier designers, developers, and editors. Through words and illustrations, it explores some of the D&D game's most iconic races and classes, sharing insights never before revealed in any previous game product."

I and several other people in the thread had previously believed that it would be a presentation by Wizards on the Races and Classes of 4th edition D&D.

What dictionary do you use that defines presentation as implicitly being about game mechanics? How is a discussion of design goals and development evolution less of a presentation than discussion of actual mechanics?

It should have been titled: Wizards Presents-- pictures and silly articles about Races & Classes in 4th ed.

Hey, you might want to try to redefine words to add implicit meanings to them to support your point, but some of us reasonable people use then as they are defined.