Wizards - Too Powerful?

[Evilhalfling]

Markn - Alter self is 2nd level.
It can also allow flight, assuming you have troglodytes anf bird folk of some sort.
and the mage is aware of them. This is not a problem for highlevel mages but for the 3rd -5th lvl when it would be the most useful?

A well played wizard can be a thing of beauty, frequently just changing the oppoents to something that wasn't planned for can make much of his magic useless, or force him to burn lots of slots providing protection for the party.

My groups straight Sorc is more of a problem. At 6th lvl he is a magic missle machine gun.
his occasial FB are easy enough to get around - but many of his 2nd levels are burned into MM and the rest of the party is not compeating damage wise. His other important job is to spider climb the whole group - its gotten them out of lots of stickyness, but I don't mind this cause its 3-5 less magic missles he will be throwing later.

 

[Shadowdweller]

IME, wizards are some of the least powerful PCs in play. That's right: least. Bards beat them for the title of "weakest" of course.

Wow.

Even taking into full account every item you've listed...to say that experiences differ would be an understatement of criminal proportions...

 

[Saeviomagy]

Here's how it works.

A wizard is about versatility. Versatility is not power - most of the benefits of versatility come from using spell slots on things that are NOT the most powerful spells.

If you restrict a wizard's versatility (ie - limit the spells he can find and scribe), then you will actually end up making him shine MORE in combat.

Or, more likely, he'll just give up being a wizard and take a sorceror out instead, and rule combat even more.

OTOH, if you're free with spells, he'll probably find that blasting spells are not the be-all and end-all. Instead he'll use some party-enhancements that he otherwise might not have taken.

 

[ThirdWizard]

OTOH, if you're free with spells, he'll probably find that blasting spells are not the be-all and end-all. Instead he'll use some party-enhancements that he otherwise might not have taken.

The party sorcerer IMC just learned how much more powerful enlarge is than magic missile. Took him long enough...

 

[kigmatzomat]

IMC the wizard is powerful but limited. He needs the melee fighters to give him enough breathing space to cast spells. Worst of all, they are at the level now where he can't count on his spells taking anything out quickly unless he gets lucky. Generally the mage spends more of his spells on party-augmenting spells than on damage dealing, at least for the first few rounds of each fight. Even then, the odds are he will try to slow, charm, or find some other non-violent means of neutralizing foes. It's only in the long fights of attrition that damage dealing spells tend to win the day.

 

[Nail]

Even taking into full account every item you've listed...to say that experiences differ would be an understatement of criminal proportions...

Again, the key peice of the puzzle is: "does the wizard have that spell in his spell book?" Sure a Wiz is flexible...if he has access to an effectively large list of spells.

At higher levels, the wizard is simply starving for spells, and begging the rest of the party to slow down and take a 2 week breather.....so he can scribe what spells he's found or bought! Such a scene has happened in more than one group I've played with.

When I DMed, my intention was to allow down-time between adventures, to correct this problem and encourage PCs to make items.........after 2 years RL playing time, playing from 1st to 10th level, the group only took one "breather", at APL 4.

 

[Shadowdweller]

At higher levels, the wizard is simply starving for spells, and begging the rest of the party to slow down and take a 2 week breather.....so he can scribe what spells he's found or bought! Such a scene has happened in more than one group I've played with.

You know, a wizard really is plenty potent with just the spells gained automatically with a new level, IME. Perhaps not as potent as a sorceror, sure, under such an extreme restriction. But more than powerful enough in comparison to other classes.

(or I suppose, once again: My experiences-- at least WRT power level-- differ)

When I DMed, my intention was to allow down-time between adventures, to correct this problem and encourage PCs to make items.........after 2 years RL playing time, playing from 1st to 10th level, the group only took one "breather", at APL 4.

Yeah. Once upon a time in D&D (as I understand it), down time was required to even gain a level...

 

[Nail]

You know, a wizard really is plenty potent with just the spells gained automatically with a new level, IME. .

Huh.

Sure, getting 2 spells per level is nice....but with such a limited selection, one of the Wiz chief strengths is taken away from her: her versaility.

Psions, Clr, and Drds, of course, blow Wiz out of the water.

...especially Psions.

 

[Shadowdweller]

Psions, Clr, and Drds, of course, blow Wiz out of the water.

...depending on how one evaluates the relative potency of arcane spells vs divine spells or psionic powers of course.

 

[Starman]

For anyone who is looking at tips on running high level games, I would recommend Sepulchrave's Tales of Wyre story hour. He does a great job of showing how to challenge characters of high level. And it's a great read to boot!

Starman