Wizards with bows... WTF

[IcyCool]

Why do dwarves have beards? Why do dragons stay airborne despite all the laws of physics screaming at them to stop being silly and getting down this instant?

It's the way it's always been. All power comes at a price. The wizard's power comes at a price of his own health. You can't have it both ways. That's just how I've always seen it.

So all wizards are weak bookworms? What happens if a player in your game wants to play a dwarf who doesn't have a beard? Or a Rage Mage?

And for reference purposes, not all dragons fly.

It sounds like you have a certain idea of how fantasy should be. What is your idea of what wizards should be? And where did you get that idea?

 

[Agamemnon]

Well, for one thing, I'd have banned all rhyming names on pain of death. I don't play, of course. My interest in the game is merely a curiosity, that's all. This is all very well because I'm a horrible player and would be an evenworse GM. Thirdly, it's very, very late. I will strive to make sense the best I can.

The way I see it is this. Wizardry is a cerebral craft, yes? To develop it one needs to study a lot. Studying a lot usually means little time for everything else, no? Hence, a non-insignificant amount of wizards devote their lives solely to the pursuit of this intellectually demanding craft. A lot of fantasy "literature" and "art" would seem to support this view. (I use the quotes because neither is worthy of the term, as a whole)

Well, and dwarves having beards is probably a cultural thing. Asking one to shave would be like offering a pork sandwich to a Muslim.

 

[Dragon Child]

Let's clear some things up...


1) Don't like the flavor of the spell? DON'T FREAKING TAKE IT. Seriously. I don't like it that my necromancer can summon celestial puppies... so he doesn't take that spell.


2) 1d6 per attack is not an epic spell. It's called a SHORTBOW. The 1d6 per attack, 1 hour per level, with an attack roll is a perfectly fine spell. Maybe compare with mage armor? Both give you a benefit equal to an item. Both last for 1 hour per level. Both can not be disarmed. Both give a slightly greater benefit (this spell: no DR. Mage armor: incorpreal creatures and no ASF). Both get around proficiency. Both are soon replaced at higher levels. Uhm... where is the problem, here?

 

[Wolf72]

I like PC's idea ... using the staff as some sort of focus for channeling arcane energy, but not being a spell ...

I'd make it a wand and go with sling range/dmg

 

[Ketjak]

Feedback or not?

Captain Tagon, I just don’t know how to address your concern.

All I can say is, sometimes a bow or crossbow doesn’t ‘fit’ a character concept. All I am trying to come up with is a spell that does the same job, but is ‘magical’ and ‘personal’ in nature, rather than ‘technological’ and ‘external’.

It’s not about breaking the game, its just about being true to a character’s nature. An academy mage would never, IMHO, resort to such a primitive device as a mechanical weapon, but ‘may’ use this spell.

At the moment, this option isn’t available in the game, and I’m trying to rectify what I perceive to be a short coming with the system. Sure, it may not be for everyone in every game, but it maybe for someone.

What's funny, Psimancer, is that you're getting defensive about your idea instead of listening to the feedback about it. HellHound, for example, posted excellent rules feedback - but you haven't even acknowledged it.

All the rest are simply wondering what the problem is. Do you want your mages to sacrifice Magic Missile or Mage Armor for this spell instead of carrying a crossbow? Eh, OK. As a sorcerer player and DM, my PCs and NPCs carry crossbows... even assuming this over-powered spell is available. Of course, MM hits anything (unlike this spell) and Mage Armor protects me ('cuz I can't wear armor), so it's a no-brainer.

 

[Dragon Child]

But it's bad feedback. Take a look at this, from Hellhound:

the write up you have makes them as good with this as an actual fighter with a longbow

Uhm... shouldn't a wizard, who has less HP and less BAB be AS GOOD AS a fighter, with one of his few class features? I think so.

Do you want your mages to sacrifice Magic Missile or Mage Armor for this spell instead of carrying a crossbow?

Magic missile sucks as a balance point, how many 1st level wizards who know what they're doing take it over sleep?

As a sorcerer player and DM, my PCs and NPCs carry crossbows... even assuming this over-powered spell is available. Of course, MM hits anything (unlike this spell) and Mage Armor protects me ('cuz I can't wear armor), so it's a no-brainer.

Sorry, but I'm going to say you don't know what you're talking about.

How can it be overpowered if no one uses it? Uh... uh...

Also, who takes magic missile over Grease, Sleep, and Color Spray at low levels?

 

[Staffan]

My main problem with this spell is its potential for damage. 1d6/attack for the whole day is immense, along the lines of epic immense.

Little damage over long time is nowhere near as good as lots of damage in one blow (just look at things like produce flame - total (1d6+5)/level damage - or call lightning - total damage 3d6/level). Remember that seeing 20 rounds of combat in one day is considered to be a lot. I'm not saying this particular spell is good or bad, I'm just saying that "total dice of damage per day" is a very bad metric with which to measure things.

I'd probably have the spell create the equivalent of a Medium-size sling (that doesn't get Strength bonus to damage), possibly with a +1 bonus per 4 levels, that lasts for 1 hour per level. It might have a different special effect, but 1d4 bludgeoning damage with a 50' range increment, and that requires a full-round action to use effectively (just like a sling takes a move action to reload, this would require a move action to recharge) as often as you like for what is effectively a whole day's worth of dungeoneering in exchange for a precious spell slot isn't exactly overpowering. If you want a more powerful enduring magic attack, play a warlock.

 

[Dragon Child]

If a first level spell lets you use an attack equal to a weak weapon that is nearly free with no weight... who would use it?

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Gandalf doesn't carry a sword. He carries a wand that's just shaped like a sword.

 

[Psimancer]

This looks very, very familiar. There was recently a thread titled something like "What if mages attacked...magically". In it a bunch of people (including me) hashed out a weapon that does almost exactly this…

I missed that thread… I’ll track it down…

I was obviously misled in my choice of both game and forum, it seems.

You haven’t been misled in either your choice of game or forum… your input and insight has been invaluable… BTW, I dislike stupid character names as well. Good to see I’m not alone on that one too…

What's funny, Psimancer, is that you're getting defensive about your idea instead of listening to the feedback about it. HellHound, for example, posted excellent rules feedback - but you haven't even acknowledged it.

Actually I did acknowledge it. Way back in post #6... Defensive? Actually, no. I knew this spell would need work, that’s why I posted it… I just honestly didn’t think I could get through to Cap T and answer his question in a way he would understand…

then in a way, you've failed.

Wow, that’s a cheap shot! A work in progress can’t fail, and that’s what this is… I mean, that was the whole point of posting it here…

To those out there who think I’m not listening to the feedback, you're wrong... I just haven't been at the PC 24x7... actually been prepping for a job interview while dodging my current boss…

Anyway, the general consensus is that (conceptually) it’s too powerful for a 1st level spell. I fail to see that, but hey, each to his own... keep them coming, it’s a WIP and has dramatically evolved since first post…

The good news is that it seems to have struck a chord with a couple of like-minded individuals, and that’s great…