Wizards with bows... WTF

[IcyCool]

What does everyone think of the following?

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Arcane Bolt

Evocation

Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 1 action (see text)
Range: Personal
Target: 1 Quarterstaff and up to 20 pieces of the same type of ammunition (i.e. 20 arrows, 20 sling stones, 20 bolts, etc.)
Duration: 1 Hour/Level or until discharged (see text)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

When this spell is cast, the spellcaster imbues his staff and up to 20 pieces of the same type of ammunition with arcane power. The pieces of ammunition turn into tiny glowing balls which circle the quarterstaff. They provide a 5' radius of shadowy illumination. The caster may fire these balls as ranged attacks similar to that of a bow or crossbow a bow or crossbow. The balls deal 1d6 points of damage, have a range increment of 100 ft., a threat range of 20, and a critical multiplier of x2. They retain any special properties and magical enhancements that the ammunition had prior to casting this spell (i.e. cold iron bolts, +1 flaming sling stones, etc.). The caster can make a number of attacks per round as dictated by their base attack bonus and may choose to apply either their Intelligence modifier (for Wizards) or Charisma modifier (for sorcerors) instead of their Dexterity modifier to the attacks. The spellcaster can benefit from the Rapid Shot, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (Arcane Bolt) and Weapon Specialization (Arcane Bolt) feats.

The spell ends when all bolts have been fired or the duration expires. If the duration expires and there are still unfired bolts, they revert to their normal state and clatter to the floor in the Wizard's square.

The material component for this spell is a tiny arrow carved with arcane symbols that is used up in the casting of the spell. The focus for this spell is any magical or non-magical quarterstaff (a magic staff counts as a magic quarterstaff for this purpose).
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[JimAde]

This looks very, very familiar. There was recently a thread titled something like

"What if mages attacked...magically". In it a bunch of people (including me) hashed out a weapon that does almost exactly this. The caster crafts it at a modest cost. He's the only one able to use it and it does 1d6 damage and takes a move action to ready (giving it basically the same stats as a light crossbow with less damage and infinite ammo). Once you make it into a weapon rather than a spell, you can make masterwork/enhanced versions of it or whatever. That way you don't have to worry about scaling, you just add enhancements as if it were a crossbow.

If you don't like the infinite ammo, just set a (high) limit.

<granny mode>
By the way, I'm really disappointed at the tone of comment on this thread. Gads, people let's be constructive!
</granny mode>

 

[Klaus]

Hmm... How's this:

Arcanobow: The arcano bow looks like an engraved hand crossbow, without the string, or a specially stout wand. Gemstones are embedded into it, with the larger one being in the handle. To most people, an arcanobow is useless, except maybe as an ornate club. But to an arcane spellcaster it becomes a handy weapon.

The arcanobow converts the user's spellcasting potential into kinetic force. The character can use it just like a light crossbow (feats taken for the light crossbow apply to the arcanobow). The arcanobow takes the same time to recharge as a light crossbow (a Rapid Recharge feat works just like Rapid Reload). As the character fires the arcanobow, the large gemstone at the handle dulls and erodes away after 50 shots, and a replacement must be provided. These large gemstones cost the same as 50 crossbow bolts.

Specially treated astral quartz can be used as a replacement gemstone. It costs the same as 50 masterwork crossbow bolts, and provides a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls (just as if the character were using masterwork ammunition). Astral quartz can be enchanted and imbued with special properties. The cost is the same of enchanting 50 pieces of ammuniton.

There is a staff-sized version of the arcanobow, which functions just like a heavy crossbow.

 

[Piratecat]

In my next campaign I intend to give wizards and sorcerers a similar class ability. No boost to hit or dmg from int/cha, though; I just prefer arcane bolts that are in every way similar to a crossbow's. To that end, it will effectively be one piercing attack per round that requires any two-handed staff to use. If a PC wants to improve this, they can do so by improving a particular staff; doing so will cost the same as improving a crossbow.

The only way that this will be superior to a crossbow is in lack of ammo, and that's balanced out by an inability to pick up and use magical arrows. It's effectively a crossbow with a lot more flavor.

I'll note that the negative tone in this thread is partially caused by the thread title. Saying "WTF?" is implying that wizards using bows is stupid, and that obviously makes people defensive. Avoiding this sort of confrontative thread title is an easy way to get better responses.

 

[Agamemnon]

I was obviously misled in my choice of both game and forum, it seems.

To me, it's all about style. When I make a character, I do not go "hmm, how to squeeze out the maximum damage potential out of this?". No, I go "Who is this guy? How should he act?"

Frankly, has anybody tried reloading a crossbow? It's hard as heck, not the kind of thing a frail wizard would do, especially since he's been sniffing mercury too close for years and staying up all night experimenting with goat's blood and pond scum. I just don't buy it. Okay, maybe a young wizard would be vigorous enough to be up to the task, but that's limiting the class concept.

Fundamentally, what it boils down to is the basic idocy of the Vancian fire-and-forget magic on low levels. How many people would bother to learn magic if it was largely irrelevant for the first one to ten years of your career (depending on whether one adventures or not)? The entire "One magic missile and I'm beat" approach to magic is just infuriating.

 

[IcyCool]

I was obviously misled in my choice of both game and forum, it seems.

How so?

To me, it's all about style. When I make a character, I do not go "hmm, how to squeeze out the maximum damage potential out of this?". No, I go "Who is this guy? How should he act?"

That's excellent. I tend to do the same thing myself. However, not everyone here is the same. And that is why this is a great place to share such ideas. I may come up with something that seems great to me and post it here for feedback. What happens if what I've created isn't balanced? Then several people here will let me know. I may be lucky enough to have a gaming group who won't take advantage of any imbalance, or I may not. The people here provide their opinion, which is based off of their own experiences and thoughts. Their thoughts on my new house rules can prove to be invaluable. That said, take everything here as if it had the tag "In My Opinion" attached to it.

Frankly, has anybody tried reloading a crossbow? It's hard as heck, not the kind of thing a frail wizard would do, especially since he's been sniffing mercury too close for years and staying up all night experimenting with goat's blood and pond scum. I just don't buy it. Okay, maybe a young wizard would be vigorous enough to be up to the task, but that's limiting the class concept.

Reloading a crossbow is a move equivalent action. I think this reflects the difficulty fairly well, mechanically. Loading and firing a crossbow is not a difficult skill, and therefore just about anyone can do it. To say a wizard could not or would not is "limiting the concept."

Fundamentally, what it boils down to is the basic idocy of the Vancian fire-and-forget magic on low levels. How many people would bother to learn magic if it was largely irrelevant for the first one to ten years of your career (depending on whether one adventures or not)? The entire "One magic missile and I'm beat" approach to magic is just infuriating.

I generally consider lower-level wizards to be apprentices and such, and so do not have great difficulty in accepting the spell limits. I think I may combine Klaus' and PirateCat's ideas for my campaign as an option for wizards though. That's mainly due to the fact that I like options rather than any perceived weakness in the wizard class, however.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the Shadowrun magic system. I like the flavor, and how it works. You may want to check it out.

 

[Torm]

So we all should just restrict possible character concepts willy-nilly. Hey, what's a lightly-armored fighter doing wandering around dungeons? Away with him, too. A cleric without a weapon? No, can't have that, either.

Frankly, I feel stupid about playing a wizard with a throwing dagger and crossbow too.

I don't necessarily see the way it works now as limiting initial character concepts - let the "Academy" wizard decide to venture forth into a deep, multi-level dungeon, with his disdain of mundane means. But then, let him run out of spells a few times with nasties still chasing after him, and just maybe, he'll decide there's a great deal of appeal in what the rogue over there is shooting, after all.

Then again, maybe he'll still disdain the weapon, but admire the way the rogue can sneak around unnoticed and thus, untargeted - but either way, that "academy" wizard is gonna hafta grow up a little to survive long, unless he's VERY lucky - or very good at convincing other party members that his welfare is more important than theirs (unlikely).

I personally like that the wizards are forced to resort to mundanity at times - it helps bring them closer to the rest of the party when he's not "above" at least trying any of what the rest are doing to survive.

 

[Agamemnon]

Personally, I'm a big fan of the Shadowrun magic system. I like the flavor, and how it works. You may want to check it out.

I've seen it. To say there was nothing I liked about Shadowrun would be an exaggeration, some of the full-color pictures were quite nice. That's about it, though. Of course, I was raised up on Cyberpunk 2020, and hating SR is kind of a prerequisite for liking that game.

 

[Thanee]

[OT] I like both, Shadowrun and Cyberpunk 2020.

And why do wizards have to be frail!?

Sure, they often are, because everyone gives them low Strength (their dump stat), since they do not benefit from Strength that much (and for some concepts it also fits well), but that is certainly not always the case.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Agamemnon]

Why do dwarves have beards? Why do dragons stay airborne despite all the laws of physics screaming at them to stop being silly and getting down this instant?

It's the way it's always been. All power comes at a price. The wizard's power comes at a price of his own health. You can't have it both ways. That's just how I've always seen it.