Word of Mearls: Official Player races will not get Oversized Weapons. Forked Thread

[Donovan Morningfire]

I'm pretty much okay with the change regarding PC minotaurs and the lack of oversized. I've seen it lead to some pretty broketastic conceptual builds, such as the two-weapon ranger with oversized battleaxes, and could see a similar issue with a minotaur or bugbear barbarian with an oversized two-handed weapon, such as the maul or greataxe or worse yet, the executioner's axe.

 

[Imban]

such as the two-weapon ranger with oversized battleaxes

Those are called Waraxes from the Adventurer's Vault. (and oversized Waraxes are worthless, so you're not really even losing anything there)

 

[Drakhar]

2d6 > 1d12 so how exactly are oversized Waraxes worthless?

 

[WhatGravitas]

So..... A simple solution is to give creatures whatever they have and go with it. If an ability is too powerful for a 1st level PC then it can't be a PC race. Balance is preserved and the world stays consistent.

Well, it is that way right now, no? The MM appendix is for NPCs, i.e. monsters.

Cheers, LT.

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, there is a difference between 'PCs have classes and powers based on their level and NPCs have whatever powers are appropriate' and 'All NPC kobolds have darkvision, while PC kobolds don't'.

Is there a difference? The MM race description is for making monsters similiar to those already written about, not for making player characters balanced with the rest of the party. If darkvision doesn't balance out with the other kobold gifts, then it doesn't. Let's face it, Shifty IS really powerful.

 

[keterys]

Is there a difference?

Absolutely. It's a flavor difference rather than an intrinsically mechanical one. PC Kobolds are blind in the environs of NPC kobolds.

If they'd made Shifty an encounter ability instead, the flavor would be equivalent despite the mechanical difference.

I mean, I'd _rather_ lose darkvision than shifty if I'm playing one, but that's a world flavor altering change rather than just 'And I do 1 less damage than an NPC... but I get to use these other powers and enhancement bonuses, etc to more than make that up'

 

[DracoSuave]

Absolutely. It's a flavor difference rather than an intrinsically mechanical one. PC Kobolds are blind in the environs of NPC kobolds.

If they'd made Shifty an encounter ability instead, the flavor would be equivalent despite the mechanical difference.

I mean, I'd _rather_ lose darkvision than shifty if I'm playing one, but that's a world flavor altering change rather than just 'And I do 1 less damage than an NPC... but I get to use these other powers and enhancement bonuses, etc to more than make that up'

PC Kobolds aren't cut from the same cloth as NPC kobolds, however. They probably have different upbringing and lifepaths. Perhaps living above ground has muted their darkvision?

Besides, when you look at kobolds, shifty-at-will is FAR more iconic to their identity as kobolds than the darkvision. As an emotional attachment, what do your parties say they find the most annoying/awesome about them? Shifty. Darkvision doesn't even show on the player radar. Thusly, it is far more important to make PC Kobolds -definitively- Kobolds by giving them shifty, rather than Darkvision which has no emotional attachment.

Same with Minotaurs, actually. People remember the goring with horns and the charging. The oversized weapons don't get as much of an emotional response from Minotaur monsters. The only emotional attachment it got was from Character Optimizers, and that's sort of missing the point of them.

 

[elecgraystone]

If darkvision doesn't balance out with the other kobold gifts, then it doesn't.

It's balanced for drow but way to powerful for kobolds?

Same with Minotaurs, actually. People remember the goring with horns and the charging. The oversized weapons don't get as much of an emotional response from Minotaur monsters.

I actually remember the huge maul that hit me several times upside my head WAY more than a gore that only happens once per combat. We must remember things differently.

 

[James McMurray]

It's balanced for drow but way to powerful for kobolds?

Yep, when put up alongside the race's other traits.

 

[elecgraystone]

Yep, when put up alongside the race's other traits.

Your going to have to point those out because I don't see it.