Word of Mearls: Official Player races will not get Oversized Weapons. Forked Thread

[Ibixat]

Plenty of places sell the 12 sided D4's.

And honestly, on my rogue, at +13 to hit 1d4+10 + 2d8 sly flourish w/sneak vs a raper at +12 1d8+10 + 2d8... I'll take the better to hit for a few points less damage. For multiple weapon dice attacks, the doublesword does start to have appeal, but I think giving bigger damage dice with the rogues virtual +4 proficiency with daggers just based on race alone without a feat would be broken.

 

[Stormtower]

But Oversized weapons fit the Goliath (he had in 3.5). I'm ignoring the change myself.
Keep the over sized where they are.

In your home games, I encourage you to ignore this (much needed IMO) balance fix at your leisure. That's the great thing about home campaigns, you can crank up the power level among friends who agree not to exploit the system too much. I personally think bugbear and minotaur PCs are cheesy (and I stand by my dislike of the 3.5 goliath), but I realize that's not everyone's opinion.

However, I don't play 4E at my home table. I'm exclusively an RPGA DM for Living Forgotten Realms, and the RPGA - for all its good points - is home to many a hardcore optimizer who would take serious advantage of the broken math involving oversized weapons and the Brutal property. I'm glad WotC pushed this system fix out before an overabundance of oversized races became the norm in LFR. The extra damage is just too good to ignore for many players, and it disrupts game balance (see also the preponderance of eladrin and genasi, arguably the two most powerful PC races, but that's for another thread).

 

[James McMurray]

As I don't like PCs and NPCs having different mechanics I don't see it as a good thing.

Do you play 4e at all, given that this is one of its design tenets?

 

[keterys]

Well, there is a difference between 'PCs have classes and powers based on their level and NPCs have whatever powers are appropriate' and 'All NPC kobolds have darkvision, while PC kobolds don't'.

 

[James McMurray]

Why?

 

[King-Panda]

Well, for one, It makes absolutely no flavor sense. A Kobold without darkvision has lost their primary means of survival in their normal habitat. The only way this could make possible sense is if all of the PC Kobolds lived long enough above ground that they lost their DV... but then they are almost no different from goblins, which is retarded.

 

[Mengu]

'All NPC kobolds have darkvision, while PC kobolds don't'.

I don't see anything wrong with this. You have to be able to make PC races balanced. If this means ripping apart some racial bonuses, then be it. It's always possible to turn some of those bonuses and abilities into feats. So a PC Kobold has not lived in caves with his brethren in a long time, and has lost his ability to see in the dark. But he can pick a feat that lets him get used to it again.

I believe a similar design element was discussed for balancing drow in one of the design articles.

 

[Cadfan]

1. PC races have to be balanced against each other somehow.
2. If monsters and monster PCs are built with the same rules, that means that no monster race can have any ability that wouldn't be appropriate on a level 1 pc, nor any collection of abilities that wouldn't be appropriate on a level 1 pc.
3. That kind of sucks.
4. And really restricts monster creation.

So...

 

[keterys]

Oh, definitely. I _love_ the decision to divorce these requirements, but I can empathize with those bothered by it. It's an essential disconnect in how you think the world should work that some people can't make.

Of course, if it does bother you, it's a simple matter to just change the monsters appropriately. For example, kobolds with darkvision might be only those blessed by a dragon or who undergo eating a regular supply of dangerous mushrooms, or whatever.

 

[ExploderWizard]

1. PC races have to be balanced against each other somehow.
2. If monsters and monster PCs are built with the same rules, that means that no monster race can have any ability that wouldn't be appropriate on a level 1 pc, nor any collection of abilities that wouldn't be appropriate on a level 1 pc.
3. That kind of sucks.
4. And really restricts monster creation.

So...

So..... A simple solution is to give creatures whatever they have and go with it. If an ability is too powerful for a 1st level PC then it can't be a PC race. Balance is preserved and the world stays consistent.