worlds and monsters is in my hands

[GlassJaw]

An ancient red's breath weapon, for example, can 'scour the fire resistance right off you'

This reminds me of the red dragon in DDO...and that's not a compliment. :\

 

[Gort]

Personally, I thought it was rubbish when players could make themselves immune to the iconic power of a monster - in this case the breath weapon of a dragon.

 

[mhensley]

Still not at my local Books a Million.

 

[FourthBear]

This reminds me of the red dragon in DDO...and that's not a compliment. :\

I can see how the ability of a breath weapon to strip away magical protections is pretty "meta-gamey". But I also think that if you're going to have elemental protections in the game, there should be some way to represent that a particularly potent attack can overcome it. And just pumping up damage totals or making the breath utterly ignore those protections don't really seem appropriate. Depending on what they mean by "strip away", it could be pretty easily explained. Definitely, blanket immunities in 4e will be rare to non-existent from what has been said.

 

[rkanodia]

4e doesn't look like it will have as many dots to connect.

This will make me spend more time developing adventures, leading D&D to become a bigger time sink for me.

This is bad.

An interesting point that I hadn't considered before. I think we just have very different styles of constructing a game. Or, maybe I am discounting the utility of non-combat-related information.

In any case, if 4E comes up short on 'ecology' blocks, that sounds to me like a ripe opportunity for a third-party publisher.

 

[I'm A Banana]

An interesting point that I hadn't considered before. I think we just have very different styles of constructing a game. Or, maybe I am discounting the utility of non-combat-related information.

Probably a bit of both. I have an improvosational style when I DM, which means that I don't have to do a lot of prep, but also means that I lean harder on the prep done for me by the designers. I don't sit down one night and come up with an adventure. I flip through the MM just before the game and see a monster in the right CR range that I think it would be fun to fight. Then I figure out how to get them to fight it.

But monsters more tied to the world allow me to do that seamlessly. They also allow me to use them as things other than combat XP bumps. I can use centaurs as guides in the forest, and dryads as allies against the orcs, and angels as benefactors of the party. If the Centaurs don't have skill information and the Dryads are over-powered if they help the PC's, and the only angels are those that want to kill the PC's for various reasons, the MM has failed it's duty to me; it's failed to give me creatures that can populate my world, only creatures that can populate my battles.

That's a very good goal for the monsters, and they need to fill that niche, too. But it's not ALL they need to do. And it's not because I desperately want to simulate a working world. It's because someday the PC's are going to take a step that I haven't really thought about and I'm going to need all the advice possible on how to deal with that step.

In any case, if 4E comes up short on 'ecology' blocks, that sounds to me like a ripe opportunity for a third-party publisher.

It is, but I don't have $5,000.

 

[StarFyre]

like this...

The implied nature that the new addition moves further away from RP...yes, any system can have heavy RP since that'sthe style of the DM....BUT, the game itself, when they say that they are taking away the more difficult or harsh parts of certain planes to make them easier to use...that not only takes away the challenge of those places but makes it much more cookie cutter.

In older adventures, it mentions that players have to do research on stuff, prepare, etc.

Now, and I understand it probably does make it more fun for most people, they don'[t have that issue.

People don't need to ask the right questions to research as often, prepare, properly equip, etc.

Creatures have less or no immunities, most creatures won't have spells that can cause a hindrance to the party, planes are easier to survive in.

It's not a bad thing overall IMHO; it's a bad thing for my players and my style..but again, we'll just house rule the 50% of 4E that we don't like and keep the 50% we do like

Regarding Far Realm again..someone mentioned they feel it was too close to teh abyss.

Really? my readings on it made it a very clear distinction.

THe abyss was supposed to be chaotic....unpredictableand there were parts that were just nuts BUT the descriptions of the far realm, with dimensions coexisting, moving through other realities, giant whale like godbeings floating around within their own insanity, etc. Even that, I do not remember the abyss being truly insane in that respect.

BUt, I understand from thinking about it, maybe it was a bit too close in some respects. Do you see them making the far realm even MORE crazy?

Sanjay

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

The Far realms now gives me a better place for the Horrors that infest Barsaive to have come through from. Cool!

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

The implied nature that the new addition moves further away from RP...yes, any system can have heavy RP since that'sthe style of the DM....BUT, the game itself, when they say that they are taking away the more difficult or harsh parts of certain planes to make them easier to use...that not only takes away the challenge of those places but makes it much more cookie cutter.

In older adventures, it mentions that players have to do research on stuff, prepare, etc.

Now, and I understand it probably does make it more fun for most people, they don'[t have that issue.

People don't need to ask the right questions to research as often, prepare, properly equip, etc.

Creatures have less or no immunities, most creatures won't have spells that can cause a hindrance to the party, planes are easier to survive in.

It's not a bad thing overall IMHO; it's a bad thing for my players and my style..but again, we'll just house rule the 50% of 4E that we don't like and keep the 50% we do like

Sanjay

I'm obviuosly just speculating, but I don't think they mean the other planes will be any less deadly. They seem to be moving toward more interesting landscapes with new challenges to make it dangerous to travel the planes. Planes like the Positive/Negative Material and the Elemental Planes weren't fleshed out very well in the core books. They were bleak landscapes of nothing but the 'element' they dervied. The plane of fire saw some development in artwork like the City of Brass. But that artwork depicted islands of stone amid a sea of fire. Why is there stone in the elemental plane of FIRE? Now with the elemental maelstrom you have all the elements available to create interesting locales. I don't think the planes will designed as less dangerous places, just much more interesting places to adventure in.

 

[WayneLigon]

As noted by others, your arguments here indicate that you consider only spellcasters and those with plentiful spellcasting powers worthy mastermind enemies. I am hoping that the 4e rules will work to reduce this, by allowing far more ways for non-spellcasters to deal with magical foes.

My hope is that with 4E, we'll see a reduction in the idea that 'magic solves all problems'. I don't think that 'the entire party teleports into the dragon's cave in prepared attack formation' will be a valid tactical option anymore.