World's Largest Dungeon in actual play [Spoilers!]

[erucsbo]

Feedback and questions are always welcome.

looks like things are going fairly well with a nice mix of combat and roleplaying.

just some tips from a long time DM (over 25 years)

there is a tendency for first time DMs to be a little over-generous with the treasure. My players would be drooling at the goodies that your characters have obtained and they have hit 9th level now. It is harder to take stuff away when you find they are having too easy a time of it. 5/6th level characters up against minotaurs and driders should be greatly outclassed and their successes may tempt them to go in a direction that leads to a TPK (which most new DMs are loathe to do and therefore arrange things so that it doesn't happen - reinforcing the cycle). The players also begin to rely on their "stuff" rather than their skills and abilities - making challenges come down to whether or not they have the right item to do the job.

remember that there is no path from E through F to G. You did mention that they could go via B and C, and with their tendency to set off traps could be a very interesting journey, otherwise they have to go via J and K and that is far beyond their capabilities (even with the extra magical goodies).

the storytelling is good, and I see that you have included quite a few of the suggestions from this thread - play them out and tie them together (which may require a bit of reading of the later sections to see how things may eventually turn out). Would be interested to hear your views on how the players reacted to the negative energy wave that causes bodies to reanimate and head towards the World Eater. I suggested that as a way of having a dungeon-wide effect and it provides a useful prod to my players when they start to get sidetracked - builds the tension, and makes them consider the consequences of their actions (when they resort to sword first questions second, instead of trying diplomacy).

Overall though you are doing a pretty good job, and having WLD as your first "module" is actually to your benefit as it limits the choices that the players have, allowing you to control the environment / introduction of new rules etc - remember that the WLD is SRD only, so if the party gets access to too much non-SRD stuff it can unbalance things in the party's favour and you are either forced to do the same to the monsters (significantly increasing your own workload) or quickly draw lines and limit the "optional extras" to those you feel you can handle.

 

[twilko]

looks like things are going fairly well with a nice mix of combat and roleplaying.

just some tips from a long time DM (over 25 years) .

25 years! I bow to your experience.

there is a tendency for first time DMs to be a little over-generous with the treasure. My players would be drooling at the goodies that your characters have obtained and they have hit 9th level now. It is harder to take stuff away when you find they are having too easy a time of it. 5/6th level characters up against minotaurs and driders should be greatly outclassed and their successes may tempt them to go in a direction that leads to a TPK (which most new DMs are loathe to do and therefore arrange things so that it doesn't happen - reinforcing the cycle). The players also begin to rely on their "stuff" rather than their skills and abilities - making challenges come down to whether or not they have the right item to do the job..

So far I don't think the magic items have been a problem. They know a number of the things are evil, and in fact one character has been turned evil by a book they picked up with another on a similar path, and have been mostly reluctant to use them. They gave the +5 Vorpal sword back to the garrison when they found out what it was. (Angelwing Razor from Book of Vile Darkness). Also there was one death last session (number 20) which has decided for them that F is bad.

As for the good vs evil thing it has been interesting to watch this party go from all neutral to good (2), evil (1 with maybe another to follow) and neutral (3 with one wavering). I have spoken to the players about alignment changes well before they happen and have warned them constantly that there are consequences for doing nasty stuff. So far they are all fine with that and I'm trying not to push any line.

remember that there is no path from E through F to G. You did mention that they could go via B and C, and with their tendency to set off traps could be a very interesting journey, otherwise they have to go via J and K and that is far beyond their capabilities (even with the extra magical goodies)..

I put in a passage from F to G on their maps. They were told that the entrance would be well hidden.

the storytelling is good, and I see that you have included quite a few of the suggestions from this thread - play them out and tie them together (which may require a bit of reading of the later sections to see how things may eventually turn out). Would be interested to hear your views on how the players reacted to the negative energy wave that causes bodies to reanimate and head towards the World Eater. I suggested that as a way of having a dungeon-wide effect and it provides a useful prod to my players when they start to get sidetracked - builds the tension, and makes them consider the consequences of their actions (when they resort to sword first questions second, instead of trying diplomacy)..

When the players said that they wanted WLD I freaked. I read the whole thing twice before I would run it.

I have only run the negative energy wave once. The party then went to the library and did some research and found out about World Eater. They then decided that that was just one more reason to get out of the dungeon. Now that one of them has joined the garrison that might change.

This thread has been great and I thank everyone who has contributed. When the manager of my local game store found out that I was running WLD which wanted to run his group through, I told him how to find this thread. He thought it was great and reccomends it to anyone thinking of running WLD.

looks Overall though you are doing a pretty good job, ...

Thanks erucsbo. I just hope I can keep it up.

 

[Gilladian]

Chopping up the dungeon

I've had the WLD from early on, and I've read massive swaths of it, but I'm not interested in running (nor would my players PLAY) such a massive dungeon.

I know it was designed to be run in chunks, but in my opinion, that would be a complex thing to do because of the interaction between many sections.

Has anybody taken areas out of the whole dungeon and used them? If so, how? Did it work? What areas? I'm especially fond of region B and have done some work on separating it, but never finished.

I'd love to discuss this concept, for various regions, sections of regions, and even just small sets of rooms.

 

[Kafkonia]

I've had the WLD from early on, and I've read massive swaths of it, but I'm not interested in running (nor would my players PLAY) such a massive dungeon.

I know it was designed to be run in chunks, but in my opinion, that would be a complex thing to do because of the interaction between many sections.

Has anybody taken areas out of the whole dungeon and used them? If so, how? Did it work? What areas? I'm especially fond of region B and have done some work on separating it, but never finished.

I'd love to discuss this concept, for various regions, sections of regions, and even just small sets of rooms.

If all goes according to plan, I'm hoping to pull out I or N (my two favourite sections as far as flavour, at least) for use later in the campaign. B has some potential, but I find it hard to conceptualize using it outside of the "locked in" dungeon environment, and it has less of a reason for the "locked in" feeling on its own than I or N do.

 

[erucsbo]

post 2000 on page 50! w00t!

have added a map (http://150.101.101.161/wld/rebelM.jpg) of M that the drow rebels in the north east corner of region I can give to the players. I'm planning on having my group move there this weekend.

 

[erucsbo]

and in to Region M

Discussion within the party about whether or not to search for the reagents needed to complete the ritual to destroy one of the twins looked like having the group go backwards, especially with them worried that the Spider Kings would be harder to stop after Eight-Strike Fang had been stolen from the party.
The rebels convinced them that having Madness around gave them the excuse to maintain an outpost and keep the driders away (from their rebel base - but they didn't tell the players that).
A map was provided of Region M (see above post) and the party were ushered through the slave pens and dumped at M36 (just before the side passage to the infirmary - though they weren't told about that).

They knew that the drider key could get them past the wardstone, but not how to use it, so the dwarf who was carrying it got to within 5' of the wardstone (leaving the rest of the party down the corridor), then the party tried to file past - setting off the alarm

I allowed them to see the cavern beyond - being backlit by the lava.

The mystic theurge cast silence on the ward stone (which really screwed up their ability to make listen checks when the Invisible Stalker arrived!) - the MT said "oops" when this was eventually discovered and dismissed the silence.

The driders and drow stayed back and the sorcerer lobbed a fireball at them - three of the drow failling their saves spectacularly and dying (even with fire resistant leather).

We ended up with the dwarf (wizard/fighter/eldritch knight), and fighter going toe to toe with the stalker (not realizing what it was) and the rest in a spell battle with the driders. I had the drow usher the slaves out. They would have been mown down by the spells (lightning bolts and fireballs) being traded on both sides.

End result - the party killed 2 invisible stalkers and the drow and driders fled, leaving them in the mine area alone. It was funny seeing the dwarf trying to find the invisible dead body that he was sure should have been in front of him somewhere (with the MT eventually suggesting that maybe it was an air elemental and thus left no body behind).

I ended up with the wave of energy from the world eater making the 3 bodies lurch towards the river of lava. The priestess tried to turn them (and destroy them) but I ruled that (after a successful knowledge religion roll) that they weren't undead. They weren't being animated by necromantic energy after the souls had fled. The souls were still there, but being summoned by the world eater.

Oh - and I also made the webbing fire resistant. I figured that with a river of lava bubbling away nearby it wouldn't do to have a stray spark or flame run rampant through the means the driders use to scuttle over the walls and ceilings.

Lessons learned:
large open areas make for very different combats than in corridors and rooms.
mobility is a LOT more important in large open areas.
blind-fighting ROCKS against invisible creatures.
having a sorcerer (lvl9), priestess (lvl9), mystic theurge(C3/W3/MT3), and an eldritch knight (F2/W6/EK1) in the party gives it a LOT of firepower.
I now have a lot of work to do - now that the driders know about the party, their capabilities, and where they are - before the next session. I am going to try and seal the party off from retreating back through I, and have the rebels launch their offensive against the Spider Kings while the party provides the main distraction.
Any suggestions any of you have would be really helpful.

Plus - with a party of this level, how difficult is it really for them to just escape the WLD at the top of Black Mountain? They have access to invisibility, fly, levitate, and could pretty much sneak past the rocs and bypass all the tricky climb checks.

 

[rvalle]

Plus - with a party of this level, how difficult is it really for them to just escape the WLD at the top of Black Mountain? They have access to invisibility, fly, levitate, and could pretty much sneak past the rocs and bypass all the tricky climb checks.

I thought I saw something either in the book or in this message thread about having an Elven group at the top of the hole. When the characters (or anything else) tries to come up they get pelted by arrows, rocks and spells.

I'd let the party find 100's of arrows at the bottom along with a mound of rocks and bones. If they try to fly up start small and then work up to bigger and bigger stuff as more and more elves get called in. Having balista mounted at the top would not be out of the question. Elvish mages with detect inviso or gems of true seeing or something of the sort would always be on watch.

After a few rounds just figure each character has 20 elves firing longbows at them and average the number of hits they would take and average the damage. 1 would be a 20 so just roll the 1 die to confirm. Maybe figure half the arrows would be at least +1 (natural or from a spell). Roll randomly to see who the balista fires at.

Then start with the fireballs and such.

Unless you want them to get out that way.

rv

 

[erucsbo]

I thought I saw something either in the book or in this message thread about having an Elven group at the top of the hole. When the characters (or anything else) tries to come up they get pelted by arrows, rocks and spells.
--snip--
rv

sounds like a good idea - might change it a little as they might see it as a way of collecting arrows

I figure that the party will still go after the World Eater - tying the regions together and giving them a sense of the bigger picture with the 2 garrisons (even though they only visited one) has helped here. If they did find a way out they would want to exit, stock up with other goodies and then come back - something I want to avoid.

I'm tempted to have rarified atmosphere towards the top with some stone, cloud, or storm giants throwing boulders down rather than an elven patrol. Maybe a few crushed roc skeletons at the base of the mountain as well. Storm giants would give me chain lightning and control weather as well, plus the good alignment so that they are tasked with keeping the bad things from getting out of the hole in the mountain top.

 

[twilko]

On Getting out.

I had always concieved the black that you entered through as being part of a box, a mile or so on a side and say 500ft top to bottom, which I think encompasses everything. My party have been told by the Garrison that the elves have a means of passing through the barrier. If they can solve the problems of that area I'll have the elves give them an amulet to get out.

 

[Hussar]

Cool Eruc, sounds like things are going well.

I'm still slogging through D. Ok, I've whinged about this before, but, I'm going to do it again. This region is shaping up to be a big disappointment. For one, many of the encounters are WAY underpowered. In the mad Derro halls, the encounters are all around EL 10-12 even if they do connect up sometimes. And, most of the EL is made up of masses of EL 2 or 3 mooks.

Sorry, but, 16 hp mooks against 15th level PC's does not make for an interesting encounter. The wizzie and the cleric are having a blast obliterating everything in their path. In a day and a half, the party has wiped out every living enemy in 1/2 of the mines. The only real threat remaining is the main ore plant and of course, the big T.

Never mind that I beefed up the encounters considerably by using the Mob template for many of the mooks.

My suggestion for anyone running D is to go through and whack on a whole pile of character levels onto the mooks. 8 levels of rogue for the Derro would be a start. As it stands, the region is a turkey shoot and, for the grand finale, it's a bit of a let down.