Worlds of Design: Escaping Tolkien

In my previous article we discussed technological differences; this article focuses on cultural differences. Perhaps the cultural differences aren’t as clear in one’s awareness, but can be very important and just as far-reaching. Don’t underestimate culture!

Picture courtesy of Pixabay.​

Part of world building is figuring out the consequences of changes you make from the technological and cultural background that you start with. You always start with something. For example, there’s often an assumption that there are horses large enough to be ridden in the world, even though for thousands of years of real-world history, they weren’t large enough to ride.

Trapped by Tolkien​

Some world builders get “trapped by Tolkien” as I like to put it. They think elves must be like Tolkien’s (even though those aren’t traditional), dwarves must be like Tolkien’s, etc. Imagine elves with the capabilities of Tolkien’s, but inclined to be Imperials! It’s a change of culture only, but a mighty one. Imagine if dwarves and orcs tended to work together! Similarly, monstrous humanoids aren’t necessarily antagonistic towards humans and vice versa. These are cultural changes that can differentiate your fantasy world from so many others and while subtle, but they can make a big difference. Turn your imagination loose, don’t let it be constrained by a single author or book.

Magical Attitudes​

Attitudes toward magic make a big difference on how a setting works. In one setting the magic users may be the rock stars, while in another they may be dreaded and avoided shadowy figures; they can be as rare as professional athletes or an everyday occurrence.

Modern Attitudes​

It’s probably inevitable that modern attitudes will shape how game masters create their fantasy worlds. Using slavery as one example, whether or not it “makes sense” in a world must also be balanced by how it will be represented in the game. If you are going to take on mature topics for a fantasy world that has a long history similar to our world (including the unpleasant parts), you should consider how your players will deal with the topic.

Intentions​

I haven’t said much about intentional versus unintentional change to a fantasy world, because in the end it’s the change that matters, not the intention. I suppose you’re more likely to figure out what changes will occur, when you’re intending to introduce changes. But a world is a huge collection of interactions, and any change is likely to affect more than you intended.

Your Turn: In your experience, what was the change (from the “default”) in world-setting that made the biggest difference?

 

[Warren Ellis]

Because its his version of dwarves, and his version of elves, that populate the standard fantasy world.

No all that much though. Tolkien elves are thin, short and boring. A Tolkien dwarf is a dumb short joke, and they are weak. Legolas and Gimil are not the versions of elf and dwarf nearly everyone thinks of: THAT would be the races of Dragonlance.

I thought Tolkien elves were big, tall, and broad? Strong, hearty, and stout all that. Even had beards and didn't really have pointy ears. Hardly the shorter, more frail elves we generally see in most D&D settings?

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

I wasn't aware that I made such arguments. This is a surprise. One minute you were agreeing with me, calling it lazy writing, but now you are castigating me as making the same anti-Tolkien argument as the OP. You're clearly angry, but maybe it would be more conducive to discussion if you stop pointing fingers around at everyone.

I was not directing my comments at you specifically, but sort of responding to the previus posts in this thread. Upon rereading said thread I realize I definitely both conflated your post with another posters and had a bit of a misconception of your "Tolkien apologists" comment as an attempt at an AD Hominem upon myself despite stating multiple times that I think Tolkien is given too much credit. It then snowballed with the subsequent reply about reductionism, and while I still maintain my opinions on both the original article and the posts I should've been referencing correctly, my behavior was out of line towards yourself.

Sorry about that, this website is an absolute nightmare to navigate on mobile (especially if one wants to do multiple quotes) and I completely dropped the ball there.

 

[Aelryinth]

I thought Tolkien elves were big, tall, and broad? Strong and all that. Even had beards and didn't really have pointy ears. Hardly the shorter, more frail elves we generally see in most D&D settings?

I thought Tolkien elves were big, tall, and broad? Strong, hearty, and stout all that. Even had beards and didn't really have pointy ears. Hardly the shorter, more frail elves we generally see in most D&D settings?

It's a bit ambiguous, but his original stories are as much about fairies as elves in their derivation. Peter Jackson made them taller and superior to men, but it's intimated that humans are actually taller then the average elf after being created. They were described as fair, and pretty sure they were beardless. Stout and strong, no, always slender; their main inspiration is probably the Sidhe. You may be thinking of the Numenor, who were definitely bigger than the elves, IIRC... but hey, there has to be a Tolkien scholar out there who can give us an absolute answer.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

For the new setting I'm creating (The Mysterious Isle), I've decided to scrap nearly all of the PHB seeds (from Odin's loins the miracle of life fell). Instead, the non-human seeds were taken primarily from Volo's Guide to Monsters, including goliaths, lizardfolk, and tabaxi. I will also included dwarves, creatures carved from living stone. I may decide to eladrin, as well, although they will be more faerie than elven.

The human Kingdom of Aubrey, also known as the Sunstone Kingdom, had built its cities along the coastline. Few are brave enough to venture into the central forest that dominates the isle. The forest is filled with monsters and ancient ruins, that provide hints of the isle mysterious past.

The primary religion of Audrey Kingdom is Christianity, complete with an archbishop and various saints. The archbishop is convinced the isle is the resting place of the Holy Grail, which has been corrupted by the serpent of the Garden of Edon to produce the strange and terrifying beasts what roam the forest. Two orders of knighthood, The Knights of the Phoenix and Knights of the Sacred Orange Tree, seek the grail and to protect the kingdom from the dangers that lurk inside the forest.

So far, the isle hasn't paid much heed to Tolkien. I have instead drawn inspiration from Arthurian legend, Greek myth, Milton, Jack Vance, Clack Ashton Smith, and the Chinese epic, Journey to the West.

 

[Mercurius]

Tolkien's elves were taller than men for the most part, and generally considered more beautiful. The pointy ear thing is controversial - I am not sure if he ever said anything to that effect. I don't think any were ever depicted with facial hair, except maybe in the Hobbit.

 

[JohnSnow]

Tolkien's elves were taller than men for the most part, and generally considered more beautiful. The pointy ear thing is controversial - I am not sure if he ever said anything to that effect. I don't think any were ever depicted with facial hair, except maybe in the Hobbit.

Cirdan the Shipwright had a beard...

"As they came to the gates Círdan the Shipwright came forth to greet them. Very tall he was, and his beard was long, and he was grey and old, save that his eyes were keen as stars; and he looked at them and bowed, and said 'All is now ready.'"
- The Return of the King, "The Grey Havens."

 

[Mercurius]

Cirdan the Shipwright had a beard...

"As they came to the gates Círdan the Shipwright came forth to greet them. Very tall he was, and his beard was long, and he was grey and old, save that his eyes were keen as stars; and he looked at them and bowed, and said 'All is now ready.'"
- The Return of the King, "The Grey Havens."

That's right, I forgot. I think that's the only mention of a bearded elf.

 

[jayoungr]

I thought Tolkien elves were big, tall, and broad? Strong, hearty, and stout all that.

They're tall (7+ feet), but more the "lean and wiry" type of strong than the "broad and stout" type.

Even had beards

Only the really old ones.

and didn't really have pointy ears.

Depends on how you interpret "leaf-shaped."

Hardly the shorter, more frail elves we generally see in most D&D settings?

THIS, I agree with.

 

[Mercurius]

Tolkien's elves were essentially more perfect human-like creatures, halfway between humans and angels. And of course it depends upon the type, and whether or not they went to Valinor to live amongst the Valar and Maiar (gods and demi-gods). Tolkien's breakdown is complex, but it is almost a hierarchy of proximity to the Valar.

The elves were "born" in Cuivienen, and shortly invited by Orome--the hunter god--to join the gods in the West. Those that refused were called the Avari, or "unwilling" - and never show up in any story, as far as I know. Those that heeded the call were called the Eldar.

The Eldar are sometimes sub-divided into two groups: the Calaquendi, or those who set foot on Valinor, and the Moriquendi, those who never did. All of the Calaquendi are Eldar, but some of the Eldar are Moriquendi.

Of the Eldar, there are three main groups: Vanyar, Noldor, Teleri. All of the Vanyar and Noldor reached Valinor, while some of the Teleri stopped on the way west - one group becoming the Silvan Elves of Mirkwood, another settling in Beleriand and becoming the Sindar. When the War of the Jewels took place, a host of mostly Noldor but a few Vanyar headed back to Middle-earth. After the war, I believe all of the Vanyar went home - although Galadriel is part Vanyar- most of the Noldor, and some of the Sindar.

At the time of end of the Third Age and the War of the Ring, the elves of Middle-earth were mostly Silvan (in Mirkwood and Lorien), some Sindar (a few in Lorien, Rivendell, and Lindon), and a handful of Noldor (Lorien, Rivendell, Lindon). The Avari mixed with the Silvan elves, I believe, although it is unknown whether some lived far to the east, where Cuivienen was.

The Silvan elves of Mirkwood, particularly as depicted in the Hobbit, are probably the main source for Gygax's elves. They aren't as noble or fair as even the Sindar, certainly not the Noldor or Vanyar, both of whom were very tall and beautiful, almost radiant - especially the fair Vanyar. They also didn't have the crafting of the Noldor. Gygax's high and gray elves are probably somewhat based upon the Sindar and Noldor, but don't carry the same degree of nobility and power.

 

[Aelryinth]

Tolkien's elves were essentially more perfect human-like creatures, halfway between humans and angels. And of course it depends upon the type, and whether or not they went to Valinor to live amongst the Valar and Maiar (gods and demi-gods). Tolkien's breakdown is complex, but it is almost a hierarchy of proximity to the Valar.

The elves were "born" in Cuivienen, and shortly invited by Orome--the hunter god--to join the gods in the West. Those that refused were called the Avari, or "unwilling" - and never show up in any story, as far as I know. Those that heeded the call were called the Eldar.

The Eldar are sometimes sub-divided into two groups: the Calaquendi, or those who set foot on Valinor, and the Moriquendi, those who never did. All of the Calaquendi are Eldar, but some of the Eldar are Moriquendi.

Of the Eldar, there are three main groups: Vanyar, Noldor, Teleri. All of the Vanyar and Noldor reached Valinor, while some of the Teleri stopped on the way west - one group becoming the Silvan Elves of Mirkwood, another settling in Beleriand and becoming the Sindar. When the War of the Jewels took place, a host of mostly Noldor but a few Vanyar headed back to Middle-earth. After the war, I believe all of the Vanyar went home - although Galadriel is part Vanyar- most of the Noldor, and some of the Sindar.

At the time of end of the Third Age and the War of the Ring, the elves of Middle-earth were mostly Silvan (in Mirkwood and Lorien), some Sindar (a few in Lorien, Rivendell, and Lindon), and a handful of Noldor (Lorien, Rivendell, Lindon). The Avari mixed with the Silvan elves, I believe, although it is unknown whether some lived far to the east, where Cuivienen was.

The Silvan elves of Mirkwood, particularly as depicted in the Hobbit, are probably the main source for Gygax's elves. They aren't as noble or fair as even the Sindar, certainly not the Noldor or Vanyar, both of whom were very tall and beautiful, almost radiant - especially the fair Vanyar. They also didn't have the crafting of the Noldor. Gygax's high and gray elves are probably somewhat based upon the Sindar and Noldor, but don't carry the same degree of nobility and power.

Now there's a nice summation, and clearly shows the levels of elves Gygax drew from. He just went more with the faerie model then the angel/sidhe model.